Immortals Handbook - ASCENSION

[Upper_Krust]

Hiya mate!

Hope to see all power done and the portfolios for the next update!!!!

I hope so too.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey there Buugipopuu!

...and welcome to the boards.

After reading through the latest version, I have a few suggestions which might add to the IH:A's Awesome if implemented:

Thanks very much for the constructive criticism - I appreciate the support.

Blood abilities (Goetic Blood, Firey Blood, nonsensical Antimatter Blood, et cetera) don't currently require the user of the ability to actually have any blood. Is it your intention to allow bloodless creatures (all Constructs, most Undead, some Abberrations) to take this ability? I'm not seeing how an Akalich can bleed over people, or suchlike.

Yes. Anyone can take the ability. It could be Ichor, quintessence, anything, they don't need to have 'blood'.

But I'll make a note in the text so that people don't get confused.

Force Field seems underpowered. As it stands it gives the equivalent of 50 hitpoints and Fast Healing 1 for 1 Divine Ability. One could buy Multifaceted and take Fast Healing 3 times and Epic Toughness 3 times to get 90 Hitpoints and Fast Healing 9 instead, which is much better. Rather than simply giving the shield more HP and regeneration, some explicit benefit to having such a shield running might balance out the ability. I can imagine that being shielded would benefit one's concentration (since being hit on the shield doesn't hurt), or protect against effects that require touch (because touch attacks touch the shield, not the user's body), or something like that. As it it written I don't see anyone taking it.

Well one benefit of Force Field over say extra hit points and fast healing is that it prevents special attacks too. So you can't sneak attack a force field. You can't decapitate someone with a vorpal weapon until you penetrate the force field, etc.

Does it look any more tempting now?

Something about life expectancy might make the rules for the breakdown of levels of Clerics in a religion more reflective of reality. At 1000XP per year is it unlikely that an NPC human will get past 12th-13th level before they die.

Well the fact of the matter is that you probably won't get to be more than 12th-13th-level by just going through the motions of life. You need to get out there and 'do' something. That means putting yourself at risk.

Capping the effective age of the religion at the life expectancy of the population from which it draws, rendering all Clerics above that level 'Adventuring' Clerics would fix this. It also has the effect of making higher level characters much rarer in the general population (Epic characters make up about 0.00025% of the population, or something in that region.), and making longer lived species significantly more powerful by raising the level of the majority of the population. While both of these things make more sense, I'm not sure how they work from a game balance perspective (If a player wants to take his followers to war).

I'm happy enough with one 21st-level character for every 2 million people.

I don't like mucking about too much with the age thing, because its likely to destabilize racial balance, as you yourself have pondered.

Its not in D&D's rules that Elves are all higher level than humans although to be fair they probably should be.

Finally: Perfect Atomic Gaze = Nuclear Eyebeams. Best. Power. Ever.

You haven't even seen the final version yet.

EDIT: How does one decide what a creature's greatest ability is (concerning Abrogate)?

Random highest rank ability (cosmic, divine, epic feat etc.) or highest ability score if you are stuck for one.

Is it most useful (Metamagic Freedom may only be an Epic Feat, but losing it is more of a bother to a high level spellcaster than losing a cosmic ability, because it vastly limits their ability to deal damage. Similar things happen with Improved Unarmed Strike for Monks (without IUS, Monks are useless, even if they had an array of Awesome Cosmic Powers, because IUS is a prerequisite for almost everything they can do), or Wield Oversized Weapon for people without a backup weapon they are capable of wielding normally), most expensive, user's choice, or some other criterion?

Interesting point, but as a fall back, if in doubt I suggest simply taking the highest ability score and nerfing it.

Unless the attacker has Psychometry and Abrogate, it can't pick and chose.

 

[paradox42]

I encountered the Goetic Blood problem too, since I made a template for my game (granted automatically to members of a certain class who reach a high enough level) that has it. At the moment I have it written such that the number of spell levels can pay metamagic costs too- so for instance you could do an Extended Summon IX with 100 points of damage- but the above ideas are good too.

The bonus to CR is probably the best one for a long-term solution, given how quickly damage scales at Epic levels once one really piles on available bonuses. The party tank in my Epic game (currently 28th level, possibly 29th at the end of next session) has the ability to use Giant Size (from the Spell Compendium) 3 times per day thanks to a magic item, and when he's "embiggened" he usually deals over 100 points of damage per hit. Power Attack and the party Bard's Words of Creation-enhanced Inspire Courage can raise it even higher. Creatures available to a mere Summon Monster IX would barely make speed bumps in light of that kind of damage output; he'd be able to take most of them down with a single swing.

 

[Ltheb Silverfrond]

Theres just something about the above highlighted line I really enjoyed reading.

Heh.
Oh, one thing I find interesting is the sheer number of possible "tactics" even at high end (Timelord/Highlord level) play; Ex: Theres no one set "list" of uber powers to take that makes you exactly the same as the next uberlord.
One might take all the Total and Legendary Abilites with Equilibrium and the Interdimentional abilities and just stall until he eclipses his foe.
Another might take Infinite Charisma, and the Cursed and Daunting abilites to penalize his foe into oblivion. (Telluric Vexing Storms seem to work well for this too)
Yes, at some point around rank 1 million all the deities look the same power-wise, but within reasonable levels of play, there is no set "way to win" just simply a large but probably finite number of different ways to go about it.
And trying to picture the beings that utilize these tactices is like combining every episode of DBZ with every Kung Fu movie and splashing some Twilight Zone just for kicks.
Oh, and UK; If Writhing effect works as listed in 1.1, how does Ultima effect compare? is it just a higher damage die?

 

[Phantom Llama]

...within reasonable levels of play...

Tee hee hee.

 

[Rockhoward56]

hello!
some thoughts: Divine abilities 76)Multifaceted+ 78)Nescient is a must have.
How works72) Mimic Ability? Could I emulate the breath of a Titanium dragon (if i fought one ofcourse)? with the same damage?

 

[Buugipopuu]

Hey there Buugipopuu!

...and welcome to the boards.

Hello to you too.

Well one benefit of Force Field over say extra hit points and fast healing is that it prevents special attacks too. So you can't sneak attack a force field. You can't decapitate someone with a vorpal weapon until you penetrate the force field, etc.

Does it look any more tempting now?

That's much more handy. It seems a handy solution to simply spamming Quickened Save-or-Die spells with your AMC in the first round of combat until the opponent gets bad roll. (Which ended quite a few of the IH-level combats I've participated in.)

Well the fact of the matter is that you probably won't get to be more than 12th-13th-level by just going through the motions of life. You need to get out there and 'do' something. That means putting yourself at risk.

I figured that all the higher level non-adventuring characters out there represent the exceptional figures who are remembered centuries later for their achievements, and so managed to accrue non-combat XP faster than their peers. The equivalents of JS Bach, William Shakespeare, Leonardo da Vinci, or Alexander the Great. Such figures are rare enough that the attrition that characters over the level limit for their age would be equivalent to someone with that kind of potential, but lacking any of the big breaks that allowed them to realise it, resulting in relative obscurity.

I don't like mucking about too much with the age thing, because its likely to destabilize racial balance, as you yourself have pondered.

Its not in D&D's rules that Elves are all higher level than humans although to be fair they probably should be.

It also avoids the dangerous area of adventuring dragons. A megayear-old Adamic dragon could have acquired piles and piles of HD over what its age would suggest it should have, and they're certainly intelligent enough to know where to look for appropriate things to do, unless they get into combat against worthy foes extremely infrequently. The system works as it is, and I suppose that the inconsistencies with logic can be chalked up to the same screwy physics that allow one to walk on clouds just by being really, really good at balancing on stuff.

You haven't even seen the final version yet.

*Anticipation*

Random highest rank ability (cosmic, divine, epic feat etc.) or highest ability score if you are stuck for one.

Interesting point, but as a fall back, if in doubt I suggest simply taking the highest ability score and nerfing it.

Unless the attacker has Psychometry and Abrogate, it can't pick and chose.

The random highest rank ability seems the more workable, because calculating the effects of losing one's best ability score seems rather time consuming if you have to go through all the attendent knock-on effects. One has to go through all of the feats/abilities and note which ones they no longer qualify for, and then do the same for spells, skills and suchlike, and then possibly another layer of calculation if someone no longer qualifies for one of their PrCs. Since Abrogate is one of the better Cosmic abilities, I anticipate this happening a lot.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hiya mate!

Love the Iron Body, Adamantine Body, Orichalcum Body, Neutronium Body ideas. How do those work?

I'll be basing Iron Body on the spell, albeit with some changes.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hiya mate!

Excellent idea!
About Goetic Blood : what's about when you love 100 or more hit points? 10th+ level spells?
how create to them?

I'm thinking of changing the mechanic for goetic blood to spell-level squared + 10.

11+ = 1st
14+ = 2nd
19 = 3rd
26 = 4th
35 = 5th
46 = 6th
59 = 7th
74 = 8th
91 = 9th
110 = 10th*
131 = 11th*

Monster CR = Spell-level +2, ECL = Spell-level x1.5 +3

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hiya mate!

So, how does it go now?

Feat: +1/6th CR
Divine: +1 CR
Cosmic: +6 CR
Transcendant: +36 CR?
Omnific: +216?

I'm just thinking Omnific should be +200.

The big problem is in converting it to item bonuses because of the bonus squared vs. bonus squared x2 fro weapons/armour.

Edit: I'll wager that the Neutronium golem weighs in at around CR 750.

Difficult to say. Certainly its between CR 500-1,333. Maybe Cr 1000 - for nostalgia's sake.