Immortals Handbook - ASCENSION

[Ltheb Silverfrond]

Its late and I am tired. I'll just comment on this.

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* Some of the methods to get an additional divine bonus to everything are really easy. I mean... having an ally near for community? For an adventuring deity, that would basically be "Always". The issue, to me, seems to be a case of whether the extra bonus is applied based on DM whim, or player whim. DM whim (extra bonus against X type of creature/attack) seems valid to me, but player whim (extra bonus when the player does something) seems rather unbalanced to me.
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They seem easy, but that community portfolio person suffers their penalty any time they have NO allies. So its either they have massive bonuses, or horrible penalties. Theres no go-between. An intelligent foe will capitalize on this. (Split party up, attack weakest links, etc)

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hiya mate!

I think the reasoning there is that if you're stronger you can swing the weapon faster, thus making it harder to get out of the way. As for Strength overcoming a size bonus to Armor Class...shockwave?

I understand their excuses but I don't agree with them. Under that logic, Godzilla should be super-fast.

I think making armour Damage Reduction is something they need to do for 4th Ed.

Use Dexterity to hit and avoid blows, use strength for damage (and possibly damage reduction for supernatural strength?).

Intelligence should be Mental Dexterity (Spells Known).
Wisdom = Mental Constitution (Spell slots per day).
Charisma = Mental Strength (Spell power).

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hiya mate!

Why would an ability not have weaker versions of itself as prerequisites? Even Epic Weapon Focus/Specialization were errata'd to require the Greater versions.

Uncanny is an optional extension (I think).

So they're actually burning Quintessence with this ability?

Not exactly, they use gold as a sort of tertiary from of quintessence.

Still, that gives twice the return of every other "stat X to bonus Y" ability. Kind of like adding twice your Con to hit points with every die.

How is that any different from having Dexterity 12 and the Dodge feat?

Bah. Any horde of 100,000 is either going down no matter what you do, or can't be defeated no matter what you do, regardless of whether you can hit them all at once.

I disagree.

Not really, no. There's the "force = speed" logic posed by SoW, and strength translates to battering down or breaking shields and armor to squish the fleshy bits beneath.

So should strength give you super-speed then?

Yeah... I really have no idea where those could go and not be game-breaking.

Its an annoying quandary.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hiya mate!

What... what program are you using that requires four hours to rename a few words?

ALT+H, Find/Replace. ALT+F to Find the new name and change the number. 4 minutes, TOPS.

Once I change the number/name of one ability, I have to change the numbers of all the other abilities both in the tables and in the listings. Then you also have to reformat the pages so all the spacing and grey boxes are level.

Also, what amount of update are we looking towards tonight?

Lots of errata fixed in Chapter 4 and about 10-12 pages of chapter 3 at 90%.

Are portfolio's still a nightmare?

The first ten are about 90% finished in the new format.

Nothing on the deity builds, I suppose?

No, sorry.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi poilbrun mate!

And anything new regarding the missing pages between p13 and p20?

I know you are busting to see those pages but you will need to wait until I have Chapter 3 provisionally finished.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi Fieari mate!

Some comments on the recent updates:

Portfolio Comments:
* Do you plan to fill out all the new domains you list? I can understand the possibility of balancing some of the portfolios by not having a domain spell at every level... the Charity domain in particular!

Yes all the domain spells will be filled. As well as pertinent epic spell additions.

* Some of the methods to get an additional divine bonus to everything are really easy. I mean... having an ally near for community? For an adventuring deity, that would basically be "Always". The issue, to me, seems to be a case of whether the extra bonus is applied based on DM whim, or player whim. DM whim (extra bonus against X type of creature/attack) seems valid to me, but player whim (extra bonus when the player does something) seems rather unbalanced to me.

Some are going to be trickier than others to nail the balance.

Initially I had the community bonus require an adjacent ally.

* Many of the double portfolio listings are copy/pastes of Chaos, or have copy/paste artifacts still left over. Would you like us to list them for quick reference for you?

No thats okay, I know which ones. When I have Chapter 3 finished thats the time to point out errata. Thanks.

I actually have a lot of unique things to implement, I just didn't get done balancing them all yet.

* Charity: For the Elder One ability... wouldn't be that you can't be harmed by those who HAVE donated 25%? And why not make it 10%... a tithe, after all.

I actually had 10% initially, but then I thought how the heck would you determine that for an epic immortal game - where artifacts are 25% each.

Nosodic: This is definitely a step in the right direction... perhaps add a note saying that reducing your charisma to below three makes you unable to make desicions on your own, and that a charisma of 0 makes you catatonic. To be interesting, perhaps you could also make it so that if a disease would normally increase a stat, it decreases it instead (removing festering anger cheese).

The flavor also makes more sense. It isn't that the disease makes you uglier, but rather that you're sapping your personality in order to force the disease to work for you instead of against you.

Even so though, I'm rather concerned that this is a mere epic feat, as it could potentially increase your stats far beyond what a divine ability can offer. Even if there is the penalty, remember that in D&D, specialization is KEY. This ability basically allows you to add to any stat (assuming you find the right disease, or wish/epic spell one into creation) by lowering charisma.

True, but Charisma is an important ability (for spell-like abilities), and its not like you can drop Charisma to zero.

Noticed something odd. The footnote for the Divine Barbarian II feat package is on the next page.

Doh!

The Orichalcum Body ability lists itself as a prerequisit on the table on page 157.

Well I had to balance it somehow!

Okay thats a mistake.

 

[Frobojoe]

I understand their excuses but I don't agree with them. Under that logic, Godzilla should be super-fast.

I've always seen it as simply making your blows harder to stop. It's a hell of a lot easier to block a punch from a random commoner with a shield then it is to block one from Godzilla.

 

[Servitor of Wrath]

I've always seen it as simply making your blows harder to stop. It's a hell of a lot easier to block a punch from a random commoner with a shield then it is to block one from Godzilla.

Definitely how Str overcomes armor, shields, etc. I was just trying to think of how Str could overcome Dex.

 

[WarDragon]

First of all, I really like the new Portfolio abilities; them being so valuable actually makes sense now!

So should strength give you super-speed then?

No, see below.

Definitely how Str overcomes armor, shields, etc. I was just trying to think of how Str could overcome Dex.

Not speed, but if you assume that the D&D statistic of strength does include what RL athletes refer to as "explosiveness," which is how quickly you can go from a standstill to applying your full power (or something like that), it starts to make sense. So you can't actually move overland any faster, but your strikes are harder to anticipate and avoid, which is how Dex, Dodge, Insight, and Size bonuses work.

Not exactly, they use gold as a sort of tertiary from of quintessence.

Interesting.

How is that any different from having Dexterity 12 and the Dodge feat?

Because that still means you get 1 point of AC (among other stuff) per 2 points of Dex increase. The Divine Dodge makes it 2 AC for 2 Dex. If you don't see this as a problem, I'm fine with it, I guess.

True, but Charisma is an important ability (for spell-like abilities), and its not like you can drop Charisma to zero.

Why not? Can't diseases normally reduce ability scores to 0? Str/Dex 0 = paralyzed, Con 0 = dead, Int/Wis/Cha 0 = coma. Standard D&D rules, right in the SRD.

 

[CRGreathouse]

Why not? Can't diseases normally reduce ability scores to 0? Str/Dex 0 = paralyzed, Con 0 = dead, Int/Wis/Cha 0 = coma. Standard D&D rules, right in the SRD.

That's what he's saying, if I'm not mistaken. You wouldn't drop your Cha to 0 because you'd be in a coma.