Immortal's Handbook continuation thread

[Gez]

It was suggested that the odd numbers still play a part in things like feat prerequisites and ability score checks so they are still a pertinent factor.

Yes, but on average, everyone is supposed to have 3 odds and 3 evens. (6 odds would be a slight bonus compared to that figure, and 6 evens would be a slight penalty.)

Well PC wealth is intrinsic to 1 Level = +1 CR.

For NPC wealth its +0.75 CR/Level (still testing)
For no wealth its +0.5 CR/Level (still testing)

I am sceptical that all the core classes (notably spellcasters) benefit the same amount by wealth/equipment though.

The monk is maybe the one who have the less use of wealth in combat (no magic armors, no magic weapons, only "clothings" can be useful). For a wizard, wealth also determine extra spells he knows.

Dream of Dragons...?

I'll check out the first pdf when I get the chance.

Rather than a simple name like that, or something like "When Dragons Dream", they chose something maybe a bit too esoteric (Rêve: the Dream Ouroboros"). I should search the exact origin of ouroboros one of these days, I've seen it used for anything and everything, like "eidolon" (incarnation).

The thread is here, and the game is here.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Bon soir mon ami!

Yes, but on average, everyone is supposed to have 3 odds and 3 evens. (6 odds would be a slight bonus compared to that figure, and 6 evens would be a slight penalty.)

Maybe I should have added the ability scores are rated as low as 0.1 now, rather than increments of 0.5.

The monk is maybe the one who have the less use of wealth in combat (no magic armors, no magic weapons, only "clothings" can be useful). For a wizard, wealth also determine extra spells he knows.

Exactly.

Rather than a simple name like that, or something like "When Dragons Dream", they chose something maybe a bit too esoteric (Rêve: the Dream Ouroboros"). I should search the exact origin of ouroboros one of these days, I've seen it used for anything and everything, like "eidolon" (incarnation).

The thread is here, and the game is here.

I seem to recall seeing a review of that at RPGnet recently.

 

[Impeesa]

So I'm finally getting a chance to dredge up my campaign, which reached 19th level some time ago and then stalled due to most of the original players moving, and I'm wondering about a few things. I have some odd questions for the only man I know who comes close to resembling an authority on the subject:

1) You mentioned at some earlier point that the book would include a template for the children of deities. What I'd like to know is, what would you give the grandchild of a deity?

2) What happens to a spellcasting god's familiar? Does it gain any improved status? Would it be able to enter an area that divine beings are barred from (like, say, Sigil), even though its master can't?

The second one comes from an NPC in my world, who is basically god of magic but resides on the Prime for a variety of reasons. I thought it would be interesting if, thousands of years ago when the world was young (it's still young, as far as worlds go ), he adopted a young dragon as a familiar, and maintained the bond as the dragon got older and became an independant and powerful being in its own right.

Which reminds me: Does anyone have any ideas for an appropriate familiar bonus for a dragon, if a PC wants to take one? I'm thinking something like prerequisite Improved Familiar, spellcaster level 12 + dragon's cr, and a bonus to something like spellcraft or SR penetration (might be too powerful..).

--Impeesa--

 

[poilbrun]

My opinion would be that there is no need for a bonus if the spellcaster has a dragon. A dragon is already powerful enough as is. Even in the normal familiars (the ones in the PHB), the eagle (I do not have my books with me, but I think that's the one) doesn't give any bonus. I believe several familiars in T&B do not give any bonus either. But I think dragons would not be a good choice as a familiar. I would rather use them as a cohort or eventually, a follower if the wizard is high-level enough to have such powerful follower. According to the ELH, a character with the epic leadership feat can have followers that belong to one of the PC classes, but no epic NPC can be a follower to a character (which I find stupid ; why couldn't a supra-high level character have an epic-level NPC as follower? After all, that's more or less what happens with gods). Why could a character have a level 19 fighter as follower, but not a CR 19 dragon?

Just my 2ct anyway

 

[Gez]

Improved Familiars don't give any bonus. They are supposed to be cool and useful enough. And that's generally true.

What happen to a god's familiar is a good question. Myself, I would give it proxy or avatar powers -- a familiar is the same being as its master, while being also someone else, a definition that suit the avatar concept IMO. However, the proxy and avatar rules in D&DG were a bit kaput (broken get overused).

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi Impeesa mate!

So I'm finally getting a chance to dredge up my campaign, which reached 19th level some time ago and then stalled due to most of the original players moving, and I'm wondering about a few things. I have some odd questions for the only man I know who comes close to resembling an authority on the subject:

I'll try to live up to expectations.

1) You mentioned at some earlier point that the book would include a template for the children of deities. What I'd like to know is, what would you give the grandchild of a deity?

Again, it really depends on the parents. Children with two divine parents are more powerful than those with simply one.

2) What happens to a spellcasting god's familiar? Does it gain any improved status?

The quick answer is that it gains anything you want it to. The deity can augment the creature anyway it sees fit (providing it expends enough power to do so); including bestowing divinity upon it.

Would it be able to enter an area that divine beings are barred from (like, say, Sigil), even though its master can't?

Well, personally I am of the opinion that restriction only applies to Demigods or better (not Hero or Quasi-deities; since those encompass Solars).

So provided the familiar itself was not a Demigod I see no reason why it could not enter Sigil.

The second one comes from an NPC in my world, who is basically god of magic but resides on the Prime for a variety of reasons. I thought it would be interesting if, thousands of years ago when the world was young (it's still young, as far as worlds go ), he adopted a young dragon as a familiar, and maintained the bond as the dragon got older and became an independant and powerful being in its own right.

I agree with poilbrun (hello mate) that a dragon is more of a cohort than a famliar; unless it stayed in pseudodragon form most of the time...or the god was very tall...

 

[Upper_Krust]

Bonjour mon ami Gez!

What happen to a god's familiar is a good question. Myself, I would give it proxy or avatar powers -- a familiar is the same being as its master, while being also someone else, a definition that suit the avatar concept IMO.

Provided the deity wishes to bestow the power then I don't see why not.

However, the proxy and avatar rules in D&DG were a bit kaput (broken get overused).

I'm sure we can sort them out...

 

[Impeesa]

My opinion would be that there is no need for a bonus if the spellcaster has a dragon. A dragon is already powerful enough as is. Even in the normal familiars (the ones in the PHB), the eagle (I do not have my books with me, but I think that's the one) doesn't give any bonus. I believe several familiars in T&B do not give any bonus either. But I think dragons would not be a good choice as a familiar. I would rather use them as a cohort or eventually, a follower if the wizard is high-level enough to have such powerful follower. According to the ELH, a character with the epic leadership feat can have followers that belong to one of the PC classes, but no epic NPC can be a follower to a character (which I find stupid ; why couldn't a supra-high level character have an epic-level NPC as follower? After all, that's more or less what happens with gods). Why could a character have a level 19 fighter as follower, but not a CR 19 dragon?

Just my 2ct anyway

I see where you guys are coming from on this... I like the concept of a wyrmling as a familiar though, I'm thinking perhaps making Dragon Familiar a feat of its own, with Improved Familiar as a prerequisite. There would be one extra caveat, the mage must raise the dragon from a hatchling and take it as a familiar before it's more than a few months old.

Originally posted by Upper_Krust

Again, it really depends on the parents. Children with two divine parents are more powerful than those with simply one.

In the specific case that I have, the character's mother was human, his father was a dragon who was in turn the son of a dragon god and a mortal dragon. 2E style half-dragons, though. Hooray for fantasy genetics.

Hm... question about the book itself (what a concept): Since there have been so many delays, are you still planning on waiting a while between the pdf release and sending the print copy off to the publisher's? Or will the print copy follow the pdf as soon as it can be ready?

--Impeesa--

 

[Gez]

Originally posted by Impeesa Hm... question about the book itself (what a concept)[/B]

What a snarky comment. You mean we were going off-topic there ?

Originally posted by Impeesa Since there have been so many delays, are you still planning on waiting a while between the pdf release and sending the print copy off to the publisher's? Or will the print copy follow the pdf as soon as it can be ready?[/B]

I had the feeling the print would follow after the PDF had proved the book sells well. Just an intuition.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi Impeesa mate!

I see where you guys are coming from on this... I like the concept of a wyrmling as a familiar though, I'm thinking perhaps making Dragon Familiar a feat of its own, with Improved Familiar as a prerequisite. There would be one extra caveat, the mage must raise the dragon from a hatchling and take it as a familiar before it's more than a few months old.

Sounds interesting.

In the specific case that I have, the character's mother was human, his father was a dragon who was in turn the son of a dragon god and a mortal dragon. 2E style half-dragons, though. Hooray for fantasy genetics.

Yeah thats all easily determined.

Hm... question about the book itself (what a concept):

Since there have been so many delays,

are you still planning on waiting a while between the pdf release and sending the print copy off to the publisher's? Or will the print copy follow the pdf as soon as it can be ready?

I think there are a number of intermediate factors involved (which hopefully I can get sorted between the release of the first and last pdf.). As Gez (bonjour mon ami) pointed out there is always the success factor to consider; replacing my art is another which may or may not be looked into...?

Currently I am shaping up for a mid March release for the first pdf (of course the SRD needs updating prior to that) with each subsequent release to follow in brief increments (a few weeks) after that.

Until I know exactly when the SRD is being updated there is always some rule I am liable to play around with or tweak; or something I am likely to add. In the light of the Revised Core Rulebooks I am tempted to add a tactics paragraph for the monsters...and deities.