Hiya mate!
Eelo =^.^=
Oo Aye, but will you be focusing so much on 4E that 3.5E gets lost in the shuffle?
Immortals Handbook - Godsend
Eelo =^.^=
Oo Aye, but will you be focusing so much on 4E that 3.5E gets lost in the shuffle?
Upper_Krust
Hero
dante58701 said:
Bonsoir!
dante58701 said:
Well the idea is to do the 4E version first and then some others (assisted by me where necessary) will convert it to 3.5E.
This current pdf is mainly vampire-centric, or 'blood' related (no pun intended). I was thinking of calling it Vampires & Demons, although any demons in it are usually part vampire/part demon type monsters. It features some gods, some demon lords, a dragon, a golem, some humans and a few other things besides the extensive amount of vampiracy in the book.
In 4E terms it goes from Level 11 (Paragon Tier) to Level 35 (Post-Epic Tier) and in true Krusty style I may throw in for fun a few surprises above Level 35. I'm trying to have a good spread of levels, roles and so forth.
In 3E terms you are talking about CRs 10-100+*
*Not counting the 'surprises', which I am still toying with.
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OO Hi there
Oo I wonder how long that would take.
That sounds fairly horrific. How many templates will be included in that? Love the red text by the by. Mayhaps I should steal it =^.^=
Oo Surprises?
Upper_Krust
Hero
dante58701 said:
Hola amigo!
Well 3.5 is a clumsy beast, but they would really only need to redo the stat blocks...and as you note below, create a few templates.
Vampiric you might even say.
Well to be honest 4E doesn't have the same need of templates as 3E, so I suspect that is indeed one area where the converters will have to become creators, though I have already formulated a simple way of determining the benefits to ability scores, the rest should be child's play.
I think there would need to be at least four (probably five) templates, I don't think all of the vampire types really work as templates.
It suits you. By the way, been meaning to ask you, 'Dante' as in Devil May Cry Dante...?
Well I always like to expand the boundaries of preconceived level limitations.
OO I ended up with the nickname as a direct result of my uncanny resemblance to his black and white picture on the Devil May Cry 2 case (http://shaunmusco.com/images/Printed/PS2 Covers/Devil_May_Cry_2.jpg). My friends noticed it and it kinda stuck ever since as a kind of running gag.
Kerrick
First Post
Um, dude.. not only is red hard to read, but it's generally considered the purview of the moderators - I've seen them smack other people for using it. First thing I thought when I saw red text was "Who did what now?"
On topic: Instead of doing multiple templates, do you think it'd be easier to just do one or two with multiple abilities from which you can pick and choose? Or are the various vampires too different for that?
On topic: Instead of doing multiple templates, do you think it'd be easier to just do one or two with multiple abilities from which you can pick and choose? Or are the various vampires too different for that?
Oo Ur more than welcome to your own opinion, but I like red, it's easier on my eyes, and it suits me, as Krusty Aka "The Moderator" stated. Besides I'm a nonconformist.
Aka Slaad.
Aka Slaad.
Aka Slaad.
Aka Slaad.
Aka Slaad.
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Upper_Krust
Hero
Hiya mate!
If you look like that I suggest going out and getting a bit of tan.
dante58701 said:
If you look like that I suggest going out and getting a bit of tan.
Upper_Krust
Hero
Hiya mate!
You finding it hard to read? Thats weird, the red seems crystal clear to me.
I'll grant you the dark red is hard to read, but the standard red seems fine to me on a black background.
As I am the moderator here I'm happy enough if dante wants to post in red. Though I will suggest you do so in these forums only and don't use the red for extensive amounts of text like stat blocks and write-ups and so forth.
In 3.5 terms you have to ask yourself what are templates. They are the sum of various ability score bonuses, likely feat bonuses (given the Vampire Template precedent) and a number of special abilities and qualities.
While I was initially predisposed to having the different types of vampire each represent a large jump in CR/ECL, such is no longer the case...in 4E. However, converted into 3.5 even a 5-Level gap can become 20 levels or more.
Immortality
So certainly as well as special abilities and qualities, ability score bonuses are going to be different enough between the templates that simply swopping one or two abilities won't be enough.
However, I will reiterate there will likely only be 5 new templates at the most, probably 4.
Kerrick said:
You finding it hard to read? Thats weird, the red seems crystal clear to me.
I'll grant you the dark red is hard to read, but the standard red seems fine to me on a black background.
As I am the moderator here I'm happy enough if dante wants to post in red. Though I will suggest you do so in these forums only and don't use the red for extensive amounts of text like stat blocks and write-ups and so forth.
Kerrick said:
In 3.5 terms you have to ask yourself what are templates. They are the sum of various ability score bonuses, likely feat bonuses (given the Vampire Template precedent) and a number of special abilities and qualities.
While I was initially predisposed to having the different types of vampire each represent a large jump in CR/ECL, such is no longer the case...in 4E. However, converted into 3.5 even a 5-Level gap can become 20 levels or more.
Immortality
So certainly as well as special abilities and qualities, ability score bonuses are going to be different enough between the templates that simply swopping one or two abilities won't be enough.
However, I will reiterate there will likely only be 5 new templates at the most, probably 4.
Upper_Krust
Hero
Monster Manual 2...first impressions
Hey all!
just posted the following at dicefreaks...
Got MM2 today and so far have spent about an hour with it. Basically a quick read through, I'll go over in in more detail over the next few days.
First impressions...
The cover art is very good, and doesn't look as cartoony as I'd initially thought. The book has 207 pages of stats compared with MM1's 267. Though the price was very cheap I thought (in the UK). The book has about 2/3rds the number of monsters to MM1. Pound for pound the epic content is the same percentage, however, it feels much less. There are no Abominations in this book, which is just silly. Given the pseudo 'Cold' theme of the book I would have expected to see the Xixecal. The more powerful Metallic Dragons make up 16% of the epic content. With 50% less epic content, the same number of dragons really dominate the epic tier.
The Demogorgon entry is hit and miss. Demogorgon himself is brilliant, and suitably powerful. The Aspect and Exarchs are good enough, but for me, they don't do enough to tie other entries thematically with Demogorgon. Where are the Ixitxachitl - nowhere to be seen. There is one relevant (in this case aquatic) demon, the Kazrith (Level 20 Lurker). But if I wanted to run an adventure taking a group of heroes up to meet Demogorgon I'm going to have a hard time fleshing out the rest of the encounters in Demogorgon's Realm.
Monsters I did like...the Djinni are pretty cool, and the Fomorians get the extended treatment they maybe should have had in the first book. The Elementals cover a lot of ground, the Human entry has a lot of story potential. The additional Maruts are nice and the Winter Wolf entry is surprisingly interesting...the Star-spawn I need to read over in detail.
Missed opportunities...the new Angels should have been in MM1, they just seem to be rounding out the roles. Also they have the Archangel template but no example Archangel. I don't really understand whats going on with the Archons. Surely they would have the sense to tie Archon power to giant power, and to be fair they do with Earth Archons. But the Storm Archons are no more powerful than the Fire Archons - for example. Chaos Shards - seems to me like a brilliant idea for some powerful epic nasties; reminiscent of the stuff from Time Bandits. But instead they are totally chumpitized to Levels 4, 8, 12 and 16. The Demons, mechanically they look quite interesting but there just seems to be something lacklustre about the entries, I think it may be to do with the naming conventions where some have a species name Bebilith; Yochlol and some are simply called Abyssal Marauder or Pod Demon. The Devils, again, same nomenclature problem with the demons, but this time the art seems to be on the wrong page for the devils in question. Fell Taints...here is the first sentence..."Insubstantial alien predators from a twisted realm of madness..." (ie. the Far Realm). How cool does that sound!? Oh wait, Levels 1, 1, 2 and 4. What the heck do they prey on, wounded kobolds? They came all the way from the Far Realm but are less of a threat than the weakest gnome in the book (who is Level 5). Eldritch Giants, as already mentioned by KCG they are weaker than Storm Giants. Added to that, the Eldritch Titan doesn't follow the new convention of having the Huge version be more 'elemental' - in this case magical.
Based on first impressions I'm giving it 6/10 and one of those points is for Demogorgon alone. The missed opportunities of the Chaos Shards and the Fell Taints are really annoying me.
I do think stronger themes in Monster books is the way to go. I'd rather have a larger section of cold creatures in one book, then I know where to look for designing those encounters. If I were WotC I'd have picked out maybe half a dozen themes and devoted at least half the book to those. Like including the Ixitxachitl, Aquatic, Reptilian and Ape-like Demons, Fiendish Dinosaurs; or throw in addition to the Cold-based entries (Frost Giant; Mammoth; Remorhaz; Winter Wolf) Kostchchie, the Xixecal, the Frost Archons (instead of putting them in MM1), Leucrotta etc. Maybe use that Thunder Serpent primordial and then on the back of that have a bunch of Storm based critters. Or a Far Realm monstrousity and then a load of Far Realm stuff.
Hey all!
just posted the following at dicefreaks...
Got MM2 today and so far have spent about an hour with it. Basically a quick read through, I'll go over in in more detail over the next few days.
First impressions...
The cover art is very good, and doesn't look as cartoony as I'd initially thought. The book has 207 pages of stats compared with MM1's 267. Though the price was very cheap I thought (in the UK). The book has about 2/3rds the number of monsters to MM1. Pound for pound the epic content is the same percentage, however, it feels much less. There are no Abominations in this book, which is just silly. Given the pseudo 'Cold' theme of the book I would have expected to see the Xixecal. The more powerful Metallic Dragons make up 16% of the epic content. With 50% less epic content, the same number of dragons really dominate the epic tier.
The Demogorgon entry is hit and miss. Demogorgon himself is brilliant, and suitably powerful. The Aspect and Exarchs are good enough, but for me, they don't do enough to tie other entries thematically with Demogorgon. Where are the Ixitxachitl - nowhere to be seen. There is one relevant (in this case aquatic) demon, the Kazrith (Level 20 Lurker). But if I wanted to run an adventure taking a group of heroes up to meet Demogorgon I'm going to have a hard time fleshing out the rest of the encounters in Demogorgon's Realm.
Monsters I did like...the Djinni are pretty cool, and the Fomorians get the extended treatment they maybe should have had in the first book. The Elementals cover a lot of ground, the Human entry has a lot of story potential. The additional Maruts are nice and the Winter Wolf entry is surprisingly interesting...the Star-spawn I need to read over in detail.
Missed opportunities...the new Angels should have been in MM1, they just seem to be rounding out the roles. Also they have the Archangel template but no example Archangel. I don't really understand whats going on with the Archons. Surely they would have the sense to tie Archon power to giant power, and to be fair they do with Earth Archons. But the Storm Archons are no more powerful than the Fire Archons - for example. Chaos Shards - seems to me like a brilliant idea for some powerful epic nasties; reminiscent of the stuff from Time Bandits. But instead they are totally chumpitized to Levels 4, 8, 12 and 16. The Demons, mechanically they look quite interesting but there just seems to be something lacklustre about the entries, I think it may be to do with the naming conventions where some have a species name Bebilith; Yochlol and some are simply called Abyssal Marauder or Pod Demon. The Devils, again, same nomenclature problem with the demons, but this time the art seems to be on the wrong page for the devils in question. Fell Taints...here is the first sentence..."Insubstantial alien predators from a twisted realm of madness..." (ie. the Far Realm). How cool does that sound!? Oh wait, Levels 1, 1, 2 and 4. What the heck do they prey on, wounded kobolds? They came all the way from the Far Realm but are less of a threat than the weakest gnome in the book (who is Level 5). Eldritch Giants, as already mentioned by KCG they are weaker than Storm Giants. Added to that, the Eldritch Titan doesn't follow the new convention of having the Huge version be more 'elemental' - in this case magical.
Based on first impressions I'm giving it 6/10 and one of those points is for Demogorgon alone. The missed opportunities of the Chaos Shards and the Fell Taints are really annoying me.
I do think stronger themes in Monster books is the way to go. I'd rather have a larger section of cold creatures in one book, then I know where to look for designing those encounters. If I were WotC I'd have picked out maybe half a dozen themes and devoted at least half the book to those. Like including the Ixitxachitl, Aquatic, Reptilian and Ape-like Demons, Fiendish Dinosaurs; or throw in addition to the Cold-based entries (Frost Giant; Mammoth; Remorhaz; Winter Wolf) Kostchchie, the Xixecal, the Frost Archons (instead of putting them in MM1), Leucrotta etc. Maybe use that Thunder Serpent primordial and then on the back of that have a bunch of Storm based critters. Or a Far Realm monstrousity and then a load of Far Realm stuff.
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