Immortals Handbook - Grimoire (Artifacts, Epic Magic discussion)

[Omeganian]

Hello again Omeganian mate!
So the master is a necessary piece of the spell component/contingency?

Well, this is a blood spell.

'The' Devil or 'a' devil. I wonder would any Arch-duke suffice?

Difficult to say. There was no sign of such creatures. However, it might. You see, the basic structure of the magic there is:

1) Almost all magic in the world of living can only trandform and create (Additive).

2) Another type of magic exists, which can undo and destroy (Subtractive).

3) The ability to use that magic has been taken away from wizards 3000 years ago.

4) Spells composed of both types were shown to be truly epic.

5) the Subtractive type of magic belongs now mostly to the underworld (which is a powerful Negative Energy dimension there). Among the wizards, only the servants of the Keeper of the Underworld can use it (and the protagonist).

How did he win?

Not him. And the defeat was not by force

Did anyone actually enter this 'dimension' beyond the gate?

Not as far as I know. Surviving in other dimensions is pretty tricky there anyway.

The area within the boundary overlaps the real world with the Netherworld (Shadowfell?).

It seems to be negative energy.

Incidently, regarding the Gray Gripper creature, why couldn't they just slice the monster down to the limb rather than have to sever the limb entire? I mean I understand the idea that you couldn't pull it off, but unless the thing is nigh on indestructible, couldn't it just be chopped up itself?

Well, it is well armored, and creatures of the underworld, since they possess Subtractive Magic, can often negate Additive. In any event, a rather powerful sorceress armed with an axe had to use it to cut her own foot off.

I recommend you read some of those books (The Sword of Truth series). There are eleven of them, but after the fourth one or so, there seem to be quality problems.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hello again matey!

Well, this is a blood spell.

One of the Dimensional Magic types was Blood Magic, not to be confused with Sacrificial Magic.

Difficult to say. There was no sign of such creatures. However, it might. You see, the basic structure of the magic there is:

1) Almost all magic in the world of living can only trandform and create (Additive).

2) Another type of magic exists, which can undo and destroy (Subtractive).

3) The ability to use that magic has been taken away from wizards 3000 years ago.

4) Spells composed of both types were shown to be truly epic.

5) the Subtractive type of magic belongs now mostly to the underworld (which is a powerful Negative Energy dimension there). Among the wizards, only the servants of the Keeper of the Underworld can use it (and the protagonist).

In my initial research I have considered the possibilities of using two forms of dimensional magic - although it does seem too powerful.

Not as far as I know. Surviving in other dimensions is pretty tricky there anyway.

In a small tweak to my own cosmology for 4th Edition I have considered that Time may not be a 'where' but a 'when'.

Well, it is well armored, and creatures of the underworld, since they possess Subtractive Magic, can often negate Additive. In any event, a rather powerful sorceress armed with an axe had to use it to cut her own foot off.

Interesting idea though. I'll have to ponder how the mechanics would work in 4th Edition.

I recommend you read some of those books (The Sword of Truth series). There are eleven of them, but after the fourth one or so, there seem to be quality problems.

I'll see what I can do. I don't seem to have the time to read as much as I want anymore.

 

[hécatonchire]

hello,
i have a problem in my campaign (lvl 95 / 120 with gods and mortals pc)
my immortals spellcasters are too weak ! they can't surpass monsters' SR.
E.G. : the lvl100 wizard PC check 1d20 + 100 (average surpass a SR 110 (SR of 84HD greater deities).
The Intermediate deities lvl60 wizard PC (Divine rank 12) check 1d20 +60 + 12 ( average surpass a SR 83)
When they fight versus an Amilictli (CR 46) , SR 99 it's easier for the mortal wizard than for the intermediate deity PC.
When they fight vs an SR 110 monster, the intermediate deity cry.

Are an idea for my problem?

 

[Mr.Satan]

There is a feat which lets you use a spell-like ability as a supernatural ability. Thus...bypassing spell resistance entirely. Given that a high level caster can turn a spell they have into a spell-like ability, you could easily combine the two and end the threat of spell resistant monstrosities.

That is...until they take the "Supernatural Resistance" feat which allows them to use their spell resistance against supernatural effects.

Alternatively, you could use spells that don't allow for spell resistance or create spells that cause natural black holes to ripple open. Of course such natural black holes would also have to be sentient magical or psionic lifeforms for them to bypass a deity's immunity to all things non-magical.

oo I enjoy finding loopholes. Everything has a weakness. Everything.

 

[Upper_Krust]

hello,

Bonsoir hécatonchire!

i have a problem in my campaign (lvl 95 / 120 with gods and mortals pc)
my immortals spellcasters are too weak ! they can't surpass monsters' SR.
E.G. : the lvl100 wizard PC check 1d20 + 100 (average surpass a SR 110 (SR of 84HD greater deities).
The Intermediate deities lvl60 wizard PC (Divine rank 12) check 1d20 +60 + 12 ( average surpass a SR 83)
When they fight versus an Amilictli (CR 46) , SR 99 it's easier for the mortal wizard than for the intermediate deity PC.
When they fight vs an SR 110 monster, the intermediate deity cry.

Are an idea for my problem?

Spell Resistance was always going to be a problem with epic level 3E.

The solution I would use would be to have Metamagic that can lower Spell-Resistance.

Maybe +4 vs. Spell Resistance for each level the spell is reduced...?

 

[eduar]

hi

you can use Fortify spell, a metamagic feat from complete arcana, it allow you increment the spell level and for each level that you incremented add +2 to caster level to overcome SR

 

[Upper_Krust]

hi

Hey eduar amigo!

you can use Fortify spell, a metamagic feat from complete arcana, it allow you increment the spell level and for each level that you incremented add +2 to caster level to overcome SR

+2 might work well in non-epic campaigns, but I imagine +4 would be better in this case.

I suppose you could always seperate the two into epic and non-epic feats...?

 

[eduar]

hi

I thought that with a +2 and AMC would be enough, like heighten spell

 

[Upper_Krust]

hi

Hiya matey!

I thought that with a +2 and AMC would be enough, like heighten spell

Seems like quite a spell-nerf though, but I suppose it would work okay.

 

[hécatonchire]

salutations upperkrust ^^

métamagic feats for surpass SR is a good idea! But every time this feat is used spells are less strong. And deities are less feats than an ecl equivalent mortal pcs. The deities'spell may surpass SR but spell are very very less powerful than mortal pcs.
it's true that deities are more polyvalent.