(IR) The 1st IC-thread of the 1st Turn of the 5th IR

[William Ronald]

(Does anyone know where Serpenteye is?)

(OOC: No, I don't know. I just e-mailed him. I hope that everything is well.)

Daoud, clad in his simple herdsman's clothes and a bright prayer shawl, addresses Al'Akbar as Ellistrae and the Mordheil leave Eclavdra's grave.

"This may indeed be a good beginning. Too often, people lack the courage to honestly admit what is the truth. For all their cultural and minor physiological differences, the elves have always been one people. They must acknowledge the past that has existed, but can perhaps move into a new future. Is there not a saying to that effect?"

Al'Akbar, attending the drow in the Hospice of Stars, nods. "Yes. Dethrone the past, and each day brings the dawning of a new world.. Perhaps this is a second dawn for the elves."

Examining a drow patient, Al'Akbar regards the woman's closed eyes. "The drow are still somewhat sensitive to sunlight. Some of the new spectacles with darkened lenses might help them to cope with bright light as they learn to adapt to their new lives."

"Daoud," Al'Akbar says.

"Yes, my Emperor."

"Make sure that the new telescopes that the Greyspace Alliance sent to us are set up in the observatory. Perhaps the drow and others will wish to see the worlds of Greyspace and the stars at the edge of the Wall Around the Worlds."

(OOC: My own research on the topic shows that Greyspace is essentially a Ptolemaic solar system. Oerth is in the center, the other bodies circle it, and the stars are on the edge of Greyspace. Some stars from outside Greyspace, such as the sun of Abeir-Toril, may no longer be visible.)

(OOC: Edena, the drow can have an early version of sunglasses. Until you can do something about it, the drow will still be somewhat light sensitive.)

 

[Edena_of_Neith]

OOC: Actually, if you take the stories of Drizzt Do'Urden at face value, it will take the drow an entire Turn (all of Turn 2) to acclimate enough they can function at all in sunlight. After that, it will take several years for them to fully acclimate and become comfortable in sunlight. This assumes no magic is used to speed the process.
It isn't just their eyes. It's their bodies. Imagine a person from high latitudes, stuck suddenly in the equatorial sun. The drow are almost vampiric, in their sensitivity to sunlight.

But ...

First of all, call them elves. For ease, just refer to them as the Star Elves, since starlight is the brightest light they can currently comfortably tolerate.
Secondly, they will make the transition. They are a strong people.
And thirdly, I like your allusion to a Rebirth. There was a First Flowering of the Elves. Perhaps we'll have a Second Flowering of the Elves now. (Forrester would be horrified.)

The Elves of Aliador, would welcome the Star Elves amongst themselves, but they would be cautious for a while.
The Elves of Miranda, Marchwards, and Elvanian Forest would welcome the Star Elves amongst themselves, because Kalanyr decreed it so.
But the Elves of Celene and the Lendores are Canon. They are stuck in the past. They will not welcome the Star Elves. They will not welcome them, anymore than most people would welcome cockroaches into their homes. They are stuck on the Seldarine Doctrine, and imprisoned by it.

I have no idea where Serpenteye is.
I'm guessing he has computer trouble.
I wish him well, and hope he returns soon.

 

[Melkor Lord Of ALL!]

Gallador proposes the following battle plan, are there objections?

First Gallador will stage few false skirmishes between his and Lord Yaghal`s Undeath troops. Warlords will believe that Yaghal is on his own, and likely attack his stronghold with huge force. Than a huge army led by Hachiman, aided by Azor-alq, Faerinaal and Gallador`s sons( around 800 rPl, 50 Elite and 8 Epic) will attack them from behind, to catch most of their regular forces into a trap.

If it doesn`t work, Hachiman wil simply march at the stronghold of the strongest Warlord.

Than most of the remaining Elite and Epic troops are going to act- around 70 Elite and 12 Epic- including Gallador, Foran, Nazarn and Elder Brother- will start taking the strongholds of Warlords- two or three at the same time, starting with the weakest- so the Warlords wouldn`t be able to gain strategic initiative and will spread their armies, therefore they wouldn`t be able to use their superior regular numbers as huge advantage). Gallador has spies in every major fortess( I spent 100 power points on infiltration).
All sentient Undeath who agree to surrender to Gallador will be spared, and the focus are first the Epic( when Warlords fall, their sentient followers might be more eager to surrender) than Elite forces( since most of regulars are mindless Undeath that can`t think on their own, our Wizards can gain control over them).

And 10 Elite, 2 Epic, 300 rPl will protect Valion Gool from any surprise assault.

 

[William Ronald]

OOC: Actually, if you take the stories of Drizzt Do'Urden at face value, it will take the drow an entire Turn (all of Turn 2) to acclimate enough they can function at all in sunlight. After that, it will take several years for them to fully acclimate and become comfortable in sunlight. This assumes no magic is used to speed the process.
It isn't just their eyes. It's their bodies. Imagine a person from high latitudes, stuck suddenly in the equatorial sun. The drow are almost vampiric, in their sensitivity to sunlight.

But ...

First of all, call them elves. For ease, just refer to them as the Star Elves, since starlight is the brightest light they can currently comfortably tolerate.
Secondly, they will make the transition. They are a strong people.
And thirdly, I like your allusion to a Rebirth. There was a First Flowering of the Elves. Perhaps we'll have a Second Flowering of the Elves now. (Forrester would be horrified.)

The Elves of Aliador, would welcome the Star Elves amongst themselves, but they would be cautious for a while.
The Elves of Miranda, Marchwards, and Elvanian Forest would welcome the Star Elves amongst themselves, because Kalanyr decreed it so.
But the Elves of Celene and the Lendores are Canon. They are stuck in the past. They will not welcome the Star Elves. They will not welcome them, anymore than most people would welcome cockroaches into their homes. They are stuck on the Seldarine Doctrine, and imprisoned by it.

I have no idea where Serpenteye is.
I'm guessing he has computer trouble.
I wish him well, and hope he returns soon.

Ironically, the Forgotten Realms setting introduced a race known as the Star Elves who appeared in the Eastern Realms from a demi-plane. As I recall, their preferred class is bard.
The elves of the Twilight might be a better name, or Bugbear's Mordheil.

As for canon, this is an IR. So, it is possible that the elves of Celene and the Lendores will follow the Seldarine but modify the doctrine of the drow as corrupt. Already two significant elven factions came to the aid of the Mordheil -- the elves of Miranda and the elven navy of Greyspace. So, there may be some caution -- all the elves are probably in a state of shock as the barrier around Greyspace went up about a month ago in game. (Serpenteye will determine how populations react, in part based on our actions. I would argue, in his absence, that it would not be too much to expect Celene to accept an ambassador from Ellistrae's court. By their standards, she is the only elven deity with whom they can still contact. I would argue that no enmity lasts forever.)

 

[Rikandur Azebol]

OOC:
I agree. That's why small populace of still "normal" Drow who came under Iuz's banner are now, simply, Dark Elves.
And imagine hos insulted Queen Yolanda must feel when only elven deity avaible, besides Ye'Cind is Llolth's daughter !

 

[Edena_of_Neith]

Well now ...

The good drow (the last time I will use that terminology) just want to be called elves. Elves, period. Nothing else. Just: elves.

The Dark Drow wish to be called drow. When they wish you to talk to them at all.

The Elves of Aliador are more lofty, more noble, than the elves of the Flanaess are depicted as being. That is why they can integrate with the incoming, black-skinned elves.

I could make the elves of Celene and the Lendores noble and lofty. This is an IR.
However, I feel ...
I feel they corrupted the elves in the first place, when they made them into such a bigoted, elitist, and unfriendly people. (And it's worse in Dragonlance and Forgotten Realms. It's much, much worse in Dark Sun and Birthright.)
If they must insist on corrupting the elves, who are I to uncorrupt them?

These corrupted elves will find out the hard way that they are in no position to be elitist or snotty.
They are not a mighty military power that dictates to others, like the Suel Imperium (which was elitist and snotty, and worse.)
They are not great wizards to rule the minds of others, as the Suel Imperium was.
Their clerics are not great clerics, like the clerics of the ancient Baklunish Empire.
Their numbers are not great, like those of Humankind.
They have no special abilities, like the Illithid.
They have no special sanctuary, like the Drow did.

No, they are a bunch of snotty elitists living in the past, under the delusion that somehow physical isolation in forests and on islands will protect them from all these lesser races.
These are the elves that make for Forresters and Forresters' cheerleaders.

If the elves are depicted as not being willing to change, not budgable, stuck in their ways to the point of insanity, who am I to change them?

They will just have to learn the hard way (as everyone in IRs learns the hard way) that things in game reality don't conform to their narrow perspections of the world.

The Drow have already made this hurdle, and paid a dear price for making it.
The Drow, have learned to adapt, and will be stronger for it. The IR will bring out the best in them, these elves reborn.

But the Elves of the Lendores and Celene will not get a free ride, anymore than the Drow got a free ride.
What have they done, to deserve it?

At least, this is my interpretation, as a player.
Eclavdra said, while she yet lived: Nothing is free. And indeed the Drow are paying a very high price to return to the Light and the Surface World.
The Elves of the Lendores and Celene, stuck in the past and in their narrow world, won't get preferential treatment from me. If they are to better themselves, they'll just have to work at it like everyone else.

And even Aliador is finding out that War is not the nice, chivalrous, Good affair that some tales make it out to be.
The price of victory is costly. The price of survival, is costly. The price might be very high indeed. The price includes suffering, agonizing pain, deaths, trauma, destruction of home and land, and other such things ... and it could include further costs.
For War is about winning. At ANY cost. Failure to win in a war against mortal enemies like the Illithid means death for all the elves. And the Illithid ARE willing to pay any price, whatever price it takes to win.
So for some elves, the price could be their very souls. It isn't nice, it isn't right, it isn't fair, and it isn't pleasant. But it is. It is war. And the elves of Aliador are having to face this fact.

 

[Anabstercorian]

An apology

I'm not going to be posting for a while, though I am going to be keeping an eye on thinks. Until such time as Serpenteye resolves whatever issues are preventing him from posting, I'll be in something of hibernation.

 

[Uvenelei]

I'm still here, just waiting on Serpenteye. Also, I have no objection to Gallador's plan, Melkor.

 

[Bugbear]

Likewise waiting on Serpenteye...

 

[William Ronald]

Well now ...

The good drow (the last time I will use that terminology) just want to be called elves. Elves, period. Nothing else. Just: elves.

The Dark Drow wish to be called drow. When they wish you to talk to them at all.

The Elves of Aliador are more lofty, more noble, than the elves of the Flanaess are depicted as being. That is why they can integrate with the incoming, black-skinned elves.

I could make the elves of Celene and the Lendores noble and lofty. This is an IR.
However, I feel ...
I feel they corrupted the elves in the first place, when they made them into such a bigoted, elitist, and unfriendly people. (And it's worse in Dragonlance and Forgotten Realms. It's much, much worse in Dark Sun and Birthright.)
If they must insist on corrupting the elves, who are I to uncorrupt them?

These corrupted elves will find out the hard way that they are in no position to be elitist or snotty.
They are not a mighty military power that dictates to others, like the Suel Imperium (which was elitist and snotty, and worse.)
They are not great wizards to rule the minds of others, as the Suel Imperium was.
Their clerics are not great clerics, like the clerics of the ancient Baklunish Empire.
Their numbers are not great, like those of Humankind.
They have no special abilities, like the Illithid.
They have no special sanctuary, like the Drow did.

No, they are a bunch of snotty elitists living in the past, under the delusion that somehow physical isolation in forests and on islands will protect them from all these lesser races.
These are the elves that make for Forresters and Forresters' cheerleaders.

If the elves are depicted as not being willing to change, not budgable, stuck in their ways to the point of insanity, who am I to change them?

They will just have to learn the hard way (as everyone in IRs learns the hard way) that things in game reality don't conform to their narrow perspections of the world.

The Drow have already made this hurdle, and paid a dear price for making it.
The Drow, have learned to adapt, and will be stronger for it. The IR will bring out the best in them, these elves reborn.

But the Elves of the Lendores and Celene will not get a free ride, anymore than the Drow got a free ride.
What have they done, to deserve it?

At least, this is my interpretation, as a player.
Eclavdra said, while she yet lived: Nothing is free. And indeed the Drow are paying a very high price to return to the Light and the Surface World.
The Elves of the Lendores and Celene, stuck in the past and in their narrow world, won't get preferential treatment from me. If they are to better themselves, they'll just have to work at it like everyone else.

And even Aliador is finding out that War is not the nice, chivalrous, Good affair that some tales make it out to be.
The price of victory is costly. The price of survival, is costly. The price might be very high indeed. The price includes suffering, agonizing pain, deaths, trauma, destruction of home and land, and other such things ... and it could include further costs.
For War is about winning. At ANY cost. Failure to win in a war against mortal enemies like the Illithid means death for all the elves. And the Illithid ARE willing to pay any price, whatever price it takes to win.
So for some elves, the price could be their very souls. It isn't nice, it isn't right, it isn't fair, and it isn't pleasant. But it is. It is war. And the elves of Aliador are having to face this fact.

Well, I think some of us will end up engaging the elves in diplomacy. The elves of Celene, and I believe in D&D in general, have been made a bit of an error in the depiction of the elves. Indeed, the beings which the elves are based on (such as the sidhe of Celtic mythology) are shown as often being quite changeable.

So, perhaps the elves of Celene and the Lendores will be slow to change. I would argue that it might be interesting for Kalanyr and yourself to try to challenge the stereotype that has permeated the D&D image of elvenkind. (Perhaps whoever runs the League of Athyr may want to chime in as well. Celene is now part of the League of Athyr.) So, perhaps it will be possible for them to change. You will have to decide as well as Serpenteye. (The DM ultimately decides how populations take things. Mind you, there is some tension inside Celene in canon Greyhawk between the isolationists -- Queen Yolande leading them -- and the internationalists -- led by Prince Melf Brightflame, who has ties to many people and knightly orders in different lands.) I imagine the fact that the elves of Miranda, the elves of Greyspace, the eladrin under Morwel, a Baklunish demigod, and Hachiman aided Ellistrae and a branch of the elves many considered corrupt may be setting up a hot debate in Celene and the Lendore Isles.

Still, I think that those two cultures are perhaps somewhat reluctant to change. However, even the most stubborn human cultures have decided to change in the wake of new realities. Perhaps a good model for Celene and the Lendore Isles might be Japan in the 1850s.

As for Gallador's plan, Melkor, it seems sound to me. A good question is whether there are some existing rivalries that we can perhaps take benefit of in this war. Possibly, some of Lord Gallador's forces can disguise themselves as members of one undead faction on Gnibile, attack another with a history of great rivalry, and bring both to war with each other. (You might have to move fast to eliminate the leaders of both factions, so that the second-in-commands of each side believe that the other has launched a first strike.)