Is it rude to offer other players unsolicited optimization advice?

[Aaron L]

If you just say "Hey, you know you could do this, might work better... " and arent being condescending, or nagging about it, then nothing wrong with it.


Usually the people who are offended by advice, of any sort, are those who need it the most.

 

[Warbringer]

You know dude, if you bathed more than twice a week, brushed you're teeth on a more regular basis and got a hair cut, you might actually get a date.

No not rude; not rude at all

 

[Chiaroscuro23]

I'm rather suspicious at the question, it seems far too knowingly innocent, so I played along and voted "no". However in almost all cases applied in the real world, I believe I would look at it as "yes".

Unsolicited advice... it's almost always rude. If I see someone that I think could benefit from my help I first ask if they would like assistance before launching into corrective suggestions. It's good manners to ask first. If more people placed good manners above offering unsolicited advice the world would be a better place.

Knowlingly innocent? I'm just trying isolate if advising others on optimization might be considered bad separately from whether advice can be given in a bad way. As noted, some folks think rules lawyering is always rude, even if the lawyer is clearly correct on both spirit and letter of the rules. Others disagree, and welcome rules questions when they are DMing. I don't think it's more outlandish to say that optimization advice is any less capable of being frowned upon than rules lawyering. And it's more likely to be frowned upon than optimizing one's own character, sometimes called "munchkin" behavior.

Since I recently refrained from offering optimization advice figuring it was probably inappropriate,* it occurred to me that I was unsure how the greater community might fell about the issue. Polls on ENworld aren't science or anything, but they can generate good discussion.

* -- I was specifically dealing with a new player who needed help levelling. Inexplicably, she's playing a wizard, and she doesn't appear to understand the need for preparing spells ahead of time, nor which spells would be effective. She took her second level in fighter on the GM's advice, because she "needs more hit points", and needed help reading the chart to know what to change on her sheet. I'm not looking forward to her levelling in wizard again, and me needing to explain multiclassing, caster level and all that.

 

[Mark Hope]

No, it's not rude. Sometimes the little people just need to realise that there are wiser folks than them at the table and benefit from their betters.



(Yeah, it's a bit rude. I know a player who does this all the time, and then berates you when you don't agree. Heart of gold, but in need of a wee slap ...)

 

[Nail]

I voted that it's not rude.....assuming you have at least moderate inter-personal skills.

Is that a fair assumption?

 

[Nail]

* -- I was specifically dealing with a new player who needed help levelling. Inexplicably, she's playing a wizard, and she doesn't appear to understand the need for preparing spells ahead of time, nor which spells would be effective. She took her second level in fighter on the GM's advice, because she "needs more hit points", and needed help reading the chart to know what to change on her sheet. I'm not looking forward to her levelling in wizard again, and me needing to explain multiclassing, caster level and all that.

Ah.

The truth comes out.

For players like that, it's best to talk to them in the DMs presence, and potentially with other gamers. You're more likely to get a better response.

Start like this: "I see you've taken a level of Fighter. That's called multiclassing, and can be a problem for Wizards. OTOH, there are some cool PrCs that are Ftr/Wiz. Is that the sort of character you're interested in playing? If so, that takes some planning......"

 

[Chiaroscuro23]

Ah.

The truth comes out.

For players like that, it's best to talk to them in the DMs presence, and potentially with other gamers. You're more likely to get a better response.

Start like this: "I see you've taken a level of Fighter. That's called multiclassing, and can be a problem for Wizards. OTOH, there are some cool PrCs that are Ftr/Wiz. Is that the sort of character you're interested in playing? If so, that takes some planning......"

I'm not looking for advice; I helped her because I was asked to, and gave her the help she needed. I'm happy to help anyone learn the game, and would gladly help the other folks in teh group, too.

My question was based on my reaction to that incident--that I shouldn't suggest she do things differently, even though she was doing them in ignorance, because to do so would challenge her control of her own character and potentially be outside her character concept. I was wondering if other people felt the same way. I didn't mention the exact situation becase I didn't want to bias response. I've only mentioned it now because of the suggestion that I was being disingenuous in some way.

Actually, everyone in the group was there, too, because we inexplicably levelled midway through a session--which was why the GM had me help her, as he was helping a different newbie. No negative aspersions to my (or her) character were meant, or, IMO warranted.

 

[Rodrigo Istalindir]

If it is truly unsolicited, then yes. If the player asks for help, or is unfamiliar with the rules, then a polite 'Do you need some help' is ok.

But otherwise it's arrogant and presumptuous to assume that you know what's better for the player -- not character, mind you, but player. Maybe the player is happy with what they have, or they have a specific concept in mind. Not everyone is considers 110% efficiency a worthwhile goal.

If you are so concerned that someone playing a sub-optimal character is going to ruin your fun, you need to chill. Or your DM does.

 

[sniffles]

I don't find it rude, though of course some situational modifiers may apply. But usually I appreciate being given new ideas of how to enhance my characters.

 

[diaglo]

If it is truly unsolicited, then yes. If the player asks for help, or is unfamiliar with the rules, then a polite 'Do you need some help' is ok.

But otherwise it's arrogant and presumptuous to assume that you know what's better for the player -- not character, mind you, but player. Maybe the player is happy with what they have, or they have a specific concept in mind. Not everyone is considers 110% efficiency a worthwhile goal.

If you are so concerned that someone playing a sub-optimal character is going to ruin your fun, you need to chill. Or your DM does.

qfmft

edit: besides... to err is human. let a person make a mistake and learn from it themselves sometimes. don't jump all over them ahead of time and cut them off from learning, mang.