SailorNash
Explorer
Ranger is a favorite topic to discuss, especially Beastmaster. We've seen several UA revisions and far more fan "fixes". Most of the other classes seem all right, or at least seldom discussed.
But what about Warlock? Everyone agrees that a two-level dip is OP for CHA classes, but beyond that, how does everyone feel at this point about the full twenty-level class?
I've played one for a number of levels, and was left unsatisfied. With only two spell slots, one was always needed for Hex and the other saved for an emergency. Concentration was almost always tied up with Hex, taking away many of your options. Instead of your most thematic spells coming automatically, as is the case with Cleric domains, they are instead choices to be made...further limiting you, when your tight number of spells are already highly restrictive.
The short rest mechanic has already been discussed as problematic. It's seldom to see 6-8 encounters in a day. With 1-2 significant events, the "5 minute workday" classes have a huge edge. Unless the DM forces the group onward, any time the group has time to stop they'll push for a full rest instead of a short one. If you have time for one hour, you usually have time for seven more. And even though they were unwise to waste their abilities too soon, those classes are often not punished for this...if you were to push them onward, you would be risking a TPK, so as a group you have to fall back or rest.
The punishment seems harsher for you as well. Without Wildshapes Moon Druids still have full spellcasting and Battlemaster Fighters when out of maneuvers still have four attacks in plate mail, but without spells you're left with nothing but Eldritch Blast and a few Invocations (some likely also tied to EB). If you do pick up a short rest, you'll regain at most two spells. But the party Wizard likely will as well with his Arcane Recovery, reducing the "cool factor" of your main class ability.
Tomelocks are interesting due to their number of rituals, but in all likelihood you'll already have the more popular Cleric and Wizard classes in the party already, making this redundant. At best you can pick up a few niche abilities that fall through others' cracks, instead of you becoming a master of forbidden magic.
Chainlocks suffer some of the same problems as Beastmasters in having to sacrifice their action to allow their pet to attack. They're hindered further by their pet being weaker, and by Find Familiar being a ritual open to Tomelocks or anyone via feat, giving others a large amount of what they'd otherwise receive.
Bladelocks were an early attempt to create an arcane gish, but with the SCAG cantrips now available anyone can pick these up with cantrip selections or a feat. That combined with their lack of armor makes them less effective than many other possible builds.
It seems that the only "correct" way to play a Warlock is to play something else instead. If you want to play a dark magician, take two levels then Shadow Sorcerer 18. If you want to play a Hexblade, start Paladin, dip a few levels for your Pact Magic and cool summon blade, then break that oath and continue on with your melee class. If you want to be a mind-taker then Mystic is coming (complete with Far Realms influence!), or refluff Lore Bard after you pick up EB for your attack. If you just want to be questionably evil, fluff that up with RP or take Initiate (Warlock) for a few flavor spells.
Before you comment, I know the only "correct" way is the way that's most fun. But Warlock as designed has problems that keep it from being fun. In combat you're almost always spamming EB because there's little reason not to. You have few other options, and you're at-will option is one of the best. In-game I attempted to disguise myself as a magician, but the party was suspicious when I never actually cast any spells? The reason being that as a player, I never could afford to...I needed to conserve my precious slots, because more often than not I only had two for the entire day. The ONLY trick I had was EB, and it was so nice others were wanting to take the level dip to have what I had plus everything else from their own class. I made it to Level 6, still only halfway until I got another spell for the day, while the party Wizard was already casting TEN spells, three at the highest level, with multiple in a single combat knowing a rest would likely be coming soon.
The other problem, though this is more of a DM one, is I've only seen one DM that really played up the Patron angle? In a class so dripping with flavor, people treat dipping here as common as picking up a little martial training (i.e. Fighter) instead of literally selling your soul to an actual devil. Along with perhaps Paladin, this should be one of the most RP-heavy classes due to it's very nature.
Has anyone else tried playing a straight Warlock 20? How does it stand against your Bladesingers or Mystics or Shadow Sorcerers now that the newer options and UA playtests are starting to appear? Has power creep completely outdated this class, and what should be done to make this a viable option? Is anything needed here, similar to saving the Beastmaster Ranger, or should it be left to stand as-is?
But what about Warlock? Everyone agrees that a two-level dip is OP for CHA classes, but beyond that, how does everyone feel at this point about the full twenty-level class?
I've played one for a number of levels, and was left unsatisfied. With only two spell slots, one was always needed for Hex and the other saved for an emergency. Concentration was almost always tied up with Hex, taking away many of your options. Instead of your most thematic spells coming automatically, as is the case with Cleric domains, they are instead choices to be made...further limiting you, when your tight number of spells are already highly restrictive.
The short rest mechanic has already been discussed as problematic. It's seldom to see 6-8 encounters in a day. With 1-2 significant events, the "5 minute workday" classes have a huge edge. Unless the DM forces the group onward, any time the group has time to stop they'll push for a full rest instead of a short one. If you have time for one hour, you usually have time for seven more. And even though they were unwise to waste their abilities too soon, those classes are often not punished for this...if you were to push them onward, you would be risking a TPK, so as a group you have to fall back or rest.
The punishment seems harsher for you as well. Without Wildshapes Moon Druids still have full spellcasting and Battlemaster Fighters when out of maneuvers still have four attacks in plate mail, but without spells you're left with nothing but Eldritch Blast and a few Invocations (some likely also tied to EB). If you do pick up a short rest, you'll regain at most two spells. But the party Wizard likely will as well with his Arcane Recovery, reducing the "cool factor" of your main class ability.
Tomelocks are interesting due to their number of rituals, but in all likelihood you'll already have the more popular Cleric and Wizard classes in the party already, making this redundant. At best you can pick up a few niche abilities that fall through others' cracks, instead of you becoming a master of forbidden magic.
Chainlocks suffer some of the same problems as Beastmasters in having to sacrifice their action to allow their pet to attack. They're hindered further by their pet being weaker, and by Find Familiar being a ritual open to Tomelocks or anyone via feat, giving others a large amount of what they'd otherwise receive.
Bladelocks were an early attempt to create an arcane gish, but with the SCAG cantrips now available anyone can pick these up with cantrip selections or a feat. That combined with their lack of armor makes them less effective than many other possible builds.
It seems that the only "correct" way to play a Warlock is to play something else instead. If you want to play a dark magician, take two levels then Shadow Sorcerer 18. If you want to play a Hexblade, start Paladin, dip a few levels for your Pact Magic and cool summon blade, then break that oath and continue on with your melee class. If you want to be a mind-taker then Mystic is coming (complete with Far Realms influence!), or refluff Lore Bard after you pick up EB for your attack. If you just want to be questionably evil, fluff that up with RP or take Initiate (Warlock) for a few flavor spells.
Before you comment, I know the only "correct" way is the way that's most fun. But Warlock as designed has problems that keep it from being fun. In combat you're almost always spamming EB because there's little reason not to. You have few other options, and you're at-will option is one of the best. In-game I attempted to disguise myself as a magician, but the party was suspicious when I never actually cast any spells? The reason being that as a player, I never could afford to...I needed to conserve my precious slots, because more often than not I only had two for the entire day. The ONLY trick I had was EB, and it was so nice others were wanting to take the level dip to have what I had plus everything else from their own class. I made it to Level 6, still only halfway until I got another spell for the day, while the party Wizard was already casting TEN spells, three at the highest level, with multiple in a single combat knowing a rest would likely be coming soon.
The other problem, though this is more of a DM one, is I've only seen one DM that really played up the Patron angle? In a class so dripping with flavor, people treat dipping here as common as picking up a little martial training (i.e. Fighter) instead of literally selling your soul to an actual devil. Along with perhaps Paladin, this should be one of the most RP-heavy classes due to it's very nature.
Has anyone else tried playing a straight Warlock 20? How does it stand against your Bladesingers or Mystics or Shadow Sorcerers now that the newer options and UA playtests are starting to appear? Has power creep completely outdated this class, and what should be done to make this a viable option? Is anything needed here, similar to saving the Beastmaster Ranger, or should it be left to stand as-is?
