Limited Wish and Metamagic Feats

[Thanee]

You do not metamagic it, therefore there is no time increase.

You cast a spell (Limited Wish) with a standard action casting time, that's all.

The spell then produces an effect, which is equivalent to a metamagicked spell, but it is not a metamagicked spell.

Kinda like casting Chain Lightning instead of a chained Spell.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Zaebos]

Since the stipulation to use metamagic is that you PREPARE it ahead of time or suffer longer casting times, AND the fact that Limited Wish makes no mention of metamagic, I would have reservations of allowing someone to cast a maximized fireball with this spell in the interest of preserving power balance.

In my opinion, it fits the rules nicely and would answer the question definitiavely at my table.

 

[Thanee]

That's certainly valid, the rules are open enough to allow either (as written above it's completely valid to produce these effects, but it's not spelt (?) out, so could be disallowed as well). I don't see any balance issues there (tho, it might be ok to do as I have written above and only allow metamagicked versions of spells of a lower total effective level, if you do not possess the feat).

If you look at it from a wizard's point of view... it's preparing this way or that way, with or without metamagic.

And from a sorcerer's point of view... the spell offers quite a different set of options, not spontaneosity as for the wizard, but rather the option to tap a broad knowledge base.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Zaebos]

Quite right and well put. It could be either way, or neither. I tend to err on the side of limiting players with questions like these rather than allowing them. Mainly because I have been badly burned many times when I rule in favor of players (give em an inch, they take the world).

 

[juliaromero]

Would you let your wizard invent a spell with an effect equal to a maximized fireball as a 6th level spell?

I would most certainly allow her to invent a spell with an effect equal to a maximized fireball that costs 300 xp as a 7th level slot.

 

[Thanee]

Quite right and well put. It could be either way, or neither. I tend to err on the side of limiting players with questions like these rather than allowing them. Mainly because I have been badly burned many times when I rule in favor of players (give em an inch, they take the world).

I see.

Bye
Thanee

 

[thorian]

I would most certainly allow her to invent a spell with an effect equal to a maximized fireball that costs 300 xp as a 7th level slot.

So would I, but that is not all LW can do...

 

[Trainz]

I would most certainly allow her to invent a spell with an effect equal to a maximized fireball that costs 300 xp as a 7th level slot.

A 7th level damaging spell caps at 20d6, average 70. If it has a save for half, the save is versus a DC of SL 7. It wouldn't cost any XP.

A maximized fireball does 60 dmg, save for half, DC of SL 3.

Charging 300 xp for such an effect is... obscene.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

I'm pretty liberal in my reading of Limited Wish. I make good use of the "or similar effect" clause to allow a lot of things. It's 300xp, which I've never seen a player give up gladly, and makes the spell very useful but not game-breaking.

So yes, for me (and I think the phrasing of the spell really does make this an "automatically Rule 0" spell,) Limited Wish can replicate any metamagic'd spell, so long as the modified spell level falls within the guidelines.

Paying 300xp for a one-time access to a feat doesn't strike me as game-breaking in any way.

As far as Miracle vs. Wish, that's always bugged me. Haven't yet run a campaign high enough to need to consider House Ruling it, though.

 

[juliaromero]

A 7th level damaging spell caps at 20d6, average 70. If it has a save for half, the save is versus a DC of SL 7. It wouldn't cost any XP.

A maximized fireball does 60 dmg, save for half, DC of SL 3.

Charging 300 xp for such an effect is... obscene.

That was my point. I would let her make a maximized fireball a lot easier too, that is clearly overkill. But I was comparing it to LW and responding to someone else's question. As your post implies, there seems to be very few balance issues with letting LW cast a maximized fireball, which I was trying to highlight.