Gammadoodler
Hero
When you say something won't be fun for anyone, you are speaking for everyone.Yes, because pointing out an easily predictable consequence is "speaking for everyone".
No one asked you to do this.
When you say something won't be fun for anyone, you are speaking for everyone.Yes, because pointing out an easily predictable consequence is "speaking for everyone".
People often have their choices dictated to them. You can try to be sly about what it is you're doing but people will gravitate towards whats more powerful, regardless of what they may "want".
Thats why whenever a game adds a broken, busted thing people start to overuse it, and that in turn starts impacting the intended game experience.
I have pages and pages of you arguing that your problems shouldn't be discounted or dismissed just because someone else doesn't think they exist.
Oh how the turns have tabled.
Sure you do; you just recognize them as countless topics covering some specific spell or caster ability thats busted.
There's no escape from this circle if you keep printing a Fighter class. The Warblade should have replaced the fighter outright. I was so excited when 4e was announced because I assumed that was what was going to happen, we'd collate all that kind of weird late 3e stuff and rebuild the core to avoid these problems.Back to the point at hand, while I fully agree that flavor for a class is what you make of it, the questions remain:
What will excite people to play this class? Cool abilities?
Is this just the Warblade/Swordsage all over again? An awesome idea that was largely rejected by the community?
And again, thinking of the Warblade, can a mythic martial really coexist with the Fighter, without people thinking that it's a "Fighter replacement"?
I don't know if that's fundamentally a problem if you pushed harder to give magic items a separate identity from class abilities, but also the underlying causes and benefits for adventuring has kind of moved on from "get cool stuff" for a while now.And are we just doing an end run around AD&D style magic items, which were supposed to patch character classes in the first place by making new abilities something you went out and acquired, not merely handed to you (thus making the idea of going out and adventuring exciting?).
If the DM is the ultimate arbiter of balance, then there is nothing to fear as a result of our efforts.The point is, it won't be balanced.
I guess that is the entire point. You guys want something that is balanced with the caster. Some believe it already is balanced.
So some want the caster nerfed. Others want a mythic fighter, which means they increase in power. But that statement alone disrupts those that believe it already is balanced. By making a fighter stronger, they have disrupted the balance; therefore, creating the same problem you were trying to fix. Now it is just a problem for the opposite side.
In truth, balance is an illusion. The DM does more to balance the game than any ruleset. Once people accept that, then perhaps they might understand their character's roles better.
Of course not.
Now...
Which level does Megor have to be in order to do this at will?
and yet not everyone plays spellcasters...
However, your phrasing was that ALL DMs OBVIOSLY struggle with all-caster parties and ALL DMs will therefore not want this new class.
Which rarely happens.
A big difference.
The game has flying demons.
Are different experiences.
- Your DM never running flying demons and never giving your party winged boots for your warriors.
- Your DM running flying demons and giving your party winged boots for your warriors.
- Your DM running flying demons, never giving your part winged boots for your warriors, but giving your party a scroll of fly so your party mages will have it to cast on your warriors
- Your DM never running flying demons and allowing a warblade and swordsage who can jump 30 extra feet and add their STR to Intimidation checks
EDIT:
5e is designed around flying warriors PCS fighting flying enemies.
None of the warrior classes get flight
5e assumes that the DM will either give the party a flight/jump/teleport magic item or will not use flying enemies after a certain level.
It's an unspoken assumption til this day that is never said out loud.
You mean the design problem created precisely by chasing Clerics and other mages up the bad design tree?
I'd say 4e was it's own thing. It is high level magic but put that stuff into rituals as a party resource.
Fighters in 4e are surprisingly mundane (minus Paragon Path and Epic Destiny) with a few exceptions that aren't really that crazy. They mostly attack with weapons, mark, and inflict conditions.
The difference of course is that Wizards were nerfed. They no longer have in-encounter mechanic avoiders and have to play within the same system of HP attrition. They do have more permissions than the Fighter -- elemental damage, summons, walls, teleport, etc. But the gap is narrowed in effect so it doesn't feel so bad.
So this design has been a major part of DnD since before 3rd edition. So 40 years. Like I said.
Wow. I posted my last post without realizing how far back I was. Then I read the intervening posts and I realized that the conversation has made zero progress because the usual suspects are so intent on making sure the conversation never actually happens.
I gotta ask. After three THOUSAND posts, if you honestly don’t believe there is any need for a mythic warrior, what in the name of little fishies are you doing in this thread?
We had FINALY made some progress. And it all flushed down the tubes.