Mike Mearls CN/CG Chaos Pantheon for 5e Nethir Vale

[MechaTarrasque]

Mike Mearls gives some details about his 5e version of Nethir Vale's chaos pantheon (Avandra, Melora, Sehanine, and Kord) and why they are feuding with certain demon lords: https://www.sageadvice.eu/2018/08/1...le-pantheon-avandra-melora-sehanine-and-kord/. A very interesting take on Melora.

Also an interesting exchange:

Question: So, are you going to release a playtest package for Nentir Vale, like the Eberron one, soon?

Answer: I’d love to. Matter of timing and bandwidth. Slow but steady.

 

[Ralif Redhammer]

Digging it. Nice to see Grazz’t and Fraz’Urb’Luu acting as opposition to the deities. I kinda felt like Grazz’t’s absence from Out of the Abyss was a missed opportunity.

 

[MechaTarrasque]

Digging it. Nice to see Grazz’t and Fraz’Urb’Luu acting as opposition to the deities. I kinda felt like Grazz’t’s absence from Out of the Abyss was a missed opportunity.

That is true. Of course nothing stops a Drow "cult of Grazz't" from showing up in future AP's, which would mean he was active, but not as overtly active as the other demon lords. Between that and the undead mindflayers, Aftermath of the Abyss could be a full AP without having any actual demon lords show up.

 

[Ralif Redhammer]

Don’t even get me started on Orcus and those undead mindflayers! I had come up with a whole section for my Out of the Abyss campaign that involved them threatening the duergar homeland of the one player and he completely ignored the hook. He was always talking about how strange his homeland in the Lowerdark was, and when I had a hook that would involve going there, he passed on it.

Between that and the undead mindflayers, Aftermath of the Abyss could be a full AP without having any actual demon lords show up.

 

[Bitbrain]

The Church of Kord in Nentir Vale doesn't sound at all like how Matt Mercer presented them in Critical Role. They seem more like the Party Pony Centaurs from Percy Jackson and the Olympians.

Melora kind of sounds a little bit like Te Fiti from Moana. Definitely wouldn't want to ruin her beauty sleep.

 

[Hexmage-EN]

It seems like this take on the Nentir Vale pantheon doesn't include the Dawn War or the primordials in the setting, which I find concerning since the setting was heavily influenced by that conflict.

Alternatively, I guess it's also possible that in this version the Dawn War could have still happened, but has now largely been forgotten along with the primordials. So, for example, Melora is now believed to have created the world when really she stabilizes the more chaotic elemental forces within it so natural life can flourish.

The existence of the primordials is a core part of the Nentir Vale setting, and even if the people of the world have now forgotten them it's important that these godlike elementals still have at least some faint presence. Perhaps the current elemental lords like Imix and Ogremoch aid in covering up the existence of their predecessors for their own benefit, leaving entities like Mual-Tar the Thunder Serpent, Balcoth the Groaning King, and Tziphal the Mountain Builder to languish in the Elemental Chaos until they are rediscovered.

 

[Hexmage-EN]

I'd also personally like at least a mention of the Great Elder Spirits as allies or maybe aspects of Melora. I really liked the idea in 4E of having a sub-pantheon of nature spirits and was disappointed that 5E's take on druids left them out.

In the home brew campaign I've just started I reintroduced the Great Elder Spirits as essentially guardians of the world while the gods are busy with their affairs, and the party's first major antagonist is an evil druid who reveres the civilization-hating Great Elder called Whisper.

 

[dave2008]

It seems like this take on the Nentir Vale pantheon doesn't include the Dawn War or the primordials in the setting, which I find concerning since the setting was heavily influenced by that conflict.

He mentions in one of his post that he replaced the primordials with demons (and switched some gods to be demons). He also talks about the struggle between the gods and demons as being central to his campaign. Thus, if there was a Dawn War, it is still going on. To be clear, this for is home game and not intended to be an official conversion of 4e Nentir Vale or PoL to 5e.

The existence of the primordials is a core part of the Nentir Vale setting, and even if the people of the world have now forgotten them it's important that these godlike elementals still have at least some faint presence. Perhaps the current elemental lords like Imix and Ogremoch aid in covering up the existence of their predecessors for their own benefit, leaving entities like Mual-Tar the Thunder Serpent, Balcoth the Groaning King, and Tziphal the Mountain Builder to languish in the Elemental Chaos until they are rediscovered.

I really liked the primordials and the 4e cosmology. Heck, I still use it in my 5e game. However, they were not essential to the PoL setting or the Nentir Vale. You can have an entire campaign in the Nentir Vale and never come across anything relating to the primordials and it works just fine. They were a great addition and one of my favorite things about 4e, but they were not "essential" to it.

 

[Hexmage-EN]

I really liked the primordials and the 4e cosmology. Heck, I still use it in my 5e game. However, they were not essential to the PoL setting or the Nentir Vale. You can have an entire campaign in the Nentir Vale and never come across anything relating to the primordials and it works just fine. They were a great addition and one of my favorite things about 4e, but they were not "essential" to it.

They don't have to show up in a campaign, but the whole conceit of the cosmology is that there was a war between gods and primordials, many died on both sides, and the war didn't end until the Great Elder Spirits finally interceded by enacting a supernatural ban on gods, primordials, and other creatures of equivalent power.

You could have an Eberron campaign where nothing having to do with the Rakshasa Rajahs is featured, but I'd still consider them pretty essential to the setting's identity. If anything the primordials are much more important to the Points of Light setting than the Rajah's are to Eberron.

 

[dave2008]

They don't have to show up in a campaign, but the whole conceit of the cosmology is that there was a war between gods and primordials, many died on both sides, and the war didn't end until the Great Elder Spirits finally interceded by enacting a supernatural ban on gods, primordials, and other creatures of equivalent power.

You could have an Eberron campaign where nothing having to do with the Rakshasa Rajahs is featured, but I'd still consider them pretty essential to the setting's identity. If anything the primordials are much more important to the Points of Light setting than the Rajah's are to Everton.

I have to disagree. We campaigned in the Nentir Vale setting, I used the primordials and Dawn War in that setting (but not the elder spirits as written, I disliked that addition to mythology); however, my players and their characters never new anything about it. They never had to interact with the "cosmology" at all. I could have used a completely different one and they would have been none the wiser. I, as the DM, knew about the cosmology, but it never became a part of the character's lives. It is fluff and is absolutely not needed to run a great campaign in the Nentir Vale.

The setting of the Nentir Vale can be very easily removed from the cosmology of 4e, one does not need the other to work. We did it just fine and clearly Mike is playing fast and loose with the cosmology as well. Mike has changed it from a war between gods and primordials to one between gods and demons. Furthermore, it seems like this is an ongoing war as well. Probably changes the creation myth as well, but it need not have much effect on the Nentir Vale