Monks & Psionics question

[RigaMortus]

Is considered......

Nuff' said.

Is ALWAYS considered...

 

[Egres]

Is ALWAYS considered...

Right.

Considered.

Egres: See LD's latest. I think he's got you.

And yet, the heading is "Light, One-Handed, and Two-Handed Melee Weapons."

Not, "Light, One-Handed, and Two-Handed Weapons."

Ergo, everything it talks about is in reference to melee weapons.

Absolutely no.

Show me where that quote states that Unarmed Strikes are melee weapons.

I think you can't do it.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Show me where that quote states that Unarmed Strikes are melee weapons.

I think you can't do it.

I think I can. Ready for it?

WEAPONS
WEAPON CATEGORIES
Weapons are grouped into several interlocking sets of categories.

These categories pertain to what training is needed to become proficient in a weapon’s use (simple, martial, or exotic), the weapon’s usefulness either in close combat (melee) or at a distance (ranged, which includes both thrown and projectile weapons), its relative encumbrance (light, one-handed, or two-handed), and its size (Small, Medium, or Large).

Simple, Martial, and Exotic Weapons: Anybody but a druid, monk, rogue, or wizard is proficient with all simple weapons. Barbarians, fighters, paladins, and rangers are proficient with all simple and all martial weapons. Characters of other classes are proficient with an assortment of mainly simple weapons and possibly also some martial or even exotic weapons. A character who uses a weapon with which he or she is not proficient takes a –4 penalty on attack rolls.

Melee and Ranged Weapons: Melee weapons are used for making melee attacks, though some of them can be thrown as well. Ranged weapons are thrown weapons or projectile weapons that are not effective in melee.

[Snip Reach vs. Thrown vs. etc. discussion]

Light, One-Handed, and Two-Handed Melee Weapons: This designation is a measure of how much effort it takes to wield a weapon in combat. It indicates whether a melee weapon, when wielded by a character of the weapon’s size category, is considered a light weapon, a one-handed weapon, or a two-handed weapon.

Weapon Size: Every weapon has a size category. This designation indicates the size of the creature for which the weapon was designed.

To summarize, all weapons are divided into categories.

They are difficulty categories, usage category, encumbrance category, and size category.

Note, specifically, the section on Light, One-Handed, and Two-Handed Melee Weapons. It indicates that only melee weapons possess this distinction. Thus, if something is considered a light weapon, it is neccessarily a melee weapon.* There's no such thing as a light ranged weapon.

* - Just like if something is a Compulsion effect, it is an Enchantment effect. You cannot have be part of a subset without being part of the superset. Though all fruits are not apples, all apples are by definition fruits.

 

[Plane Sailing]

Egres, you still haven't answered my question (perhaps it wasn't clear that I was directing it to you).

What do you consider a "manufactured weapon" to be in the context of my original PHB quote in the first post of this thread?

Regards

 

[Egres]

I think I can. Ready for it?



To summarize, all weapons are divided into categories.

They are difficulty categories, usage category, encumbrance category, and size category.

Note, specifically, the section on Light, One-Handed, and Two-Handed Melee Weapons. It indicates that only melee weapons possess this distinction. Thus, if something is considered a light weapon, it is neccessarily a melee weapon.* There's no such thing as a light ranged weapon.

* - Just like if something is a Compulsion effect, it is an Enchantment effect. You cannot have be part of a subset without being part of the superset. Though all fruits are not apples, all apples are by definition fruits.

Nope.

Unarmed Strikes are simple weapons, and are considered light weapons.

Nothing else.

Deal with it.

Egres, you still haven't answered my question (perhaps it wasn't clear that I was directing it to you).

What do you consider a "manufactured weapon" to be in the context of my original PHB quote in the first post of this thread?

Sorry, I didn't notice that your question was directed to me.

Manufactured weapon?

A weapon that isn't a natural weapon, or an unarmed strike.

a) is it reasonable to include psionic powers within "spells and effects"

Yes, of course.

b) if so, what about powers like claw of energy (requires natural weapon or claw attack), vampiric blade, metaphysical weapon... would they work on a monks unarmed attacks?

If the power requires a natural weapon or a manufactured one as a target yes, you can use it to improve or enhance your unarmed strikes.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Unarmed Strikes are simple weapons, and are considered light weapons.

And if they are considered light weapons, then they must also be considered melee weapons. There is no such thing as light weapon which is not a melee weapon.

Deal with it.

Alright. Now you're being a buttmunch. Stop it, and play nice.

 

[Egres]

And if they are considered light weapons, then they must also be considered melee weapons. There is no such thing as light weapon which is not a melee weapon.

Yes, there's one.

Unarmed Strike.

Alright. Now you're being a buttmunch. Stop it, and play nice.

Ok, ok.

(Buttmunch? )

 

[Plane Sailing]

Deal with it.

< moderator hat >
Egres, may I remind you of the rules of ENworld, about being polite to other people? That goes for Patryn anyone else too of course. Tiny insults have a way of spiraling out of control and nobody wants that, eh?
< /moderator hat >

Sorry, I didn't notice that your question was directed to me.

Manufactured weapon?

A weapon that isn't a natural weapon, or an unarmed strike.

My fault, I wasn't clear in addressing the question. No worries.

Would you agree that a longsword (say) probably counts as a manufactured weapon? It certainly isn't a natural weapon, nor is it an unarmed strike. A longsword is a member of the set of manufactured weapons, and as such, the PHB wording for the monk could be written (for the sake of argument)

A monk’s unarmed strike is treated both as a (longsword) and a natural weapon for the purpose of spells and effects that enhance or improve either manufactured weapons or natural weapons.

Put another way, when is a manufactured weapon not a melee weapon? The only circumstances I can think of are missile weapons (including seige artilliary! Now there's an interesting idea...)

Cheers

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Yes, there's one.

Unarmed Strike.

Well, if you say so!

(Buttmunch? )

Yeah, it was the first thing that came to mind ... I think it was in Terminator 2.

 

[Jdvn1]

While I agree with you, Plane, I don't think that's a valid argument. To use the analogy used before, an apple is a red fruit, but not all red fruits are apples.