More Grappling Questions

[Kirowan]

If you want to damage an opponent you're grappling with a successful grappling check, you take a -4 penalty to the roll unless you are dealing nonlethal unarmed damage. Now, in the description of the special ability for rake, the text specifically states that monsters with rake do not take the -4 penalty when damaging opponents with their natural weapons. It does not say the same thing in the descriptions for the improved grab, constrict, and swallow whole special abilities.

Do you think that it should?

Nick

 

[Nail]

If you want to damage an opponent you're grappling with a successful grappling check, you take a -4 penalty to the roll unless you are dealing nonlethal unarmed damage. Now, in the description of the special ability for rake, the text specifically states that monsters with rake do not take the -4 penalty when damaging opponents with their natural weapons. It does not say the same thing in the descriptions for the improved grab, constrict, and swallow whole special abilities.

Do you think that it should?

Nick

These abilities say they automatically do damage without an attack roll, n'est pas? If so, then no need for the "-4" text.

 

[Kirowan]

Well, constrict damage is automatically in addition to the damage a creature with improved grab normally causes when he succeeds with a grapple check. He still must succeed with a grapple check however. That's why I ask.

The swallow whole ability allows a creature to make a grapple check to swallow and deal automatic bite damage. I guess that means it wouldn't take the normal -4 penalty the more I think about it.

Nick

 

[Nail]

The swallow whole ability allows a creature to make a grapple check to swallow and deal automatic bite damage. I guess that means it wouldn't take the normal -4 penalty the more I think about it.

Exactly. The -4 penalty is on the attack roll, not the grapple check roll. The rules work! Huzzah!

 

[Kirowan]

Now I'm confused. Isn't a grapple check an attack roll, just using different size modifiers?

I thought you always made grapple checks to attack an opponent you are grappling whether you are using a weapon or not.

Nick

 

[Kirowan]

Bump.

Nick

 

[Nail]

Now I'm confused. Isn't a grapple check an attack roll, just using different size modifiers?

I thought you always made grapple checks to attack an opponent you are grappling whether you are using a weapon or not.

Nick

I don't have my books, and the SRD 3.5 isn't readily available right now, but.....

A grapple is one way to attack. It is not an attack roll per se.

A grapple check is *only* BAB + Str. Mod + size mod.

You do not use a grapple check to use your light weapon while grappling. You use your attack roll, with a -4 to the roll. Or you can use a grapple check, and do subdual damage (usually -- there are exceptions).

Grapple does not equal attack with your weapons. Nicht var?

 

[Kirowan]

Ah, I see. 3.0's version confused me a little. It said something to the effect of , "with a successful grapple check you can do one of the following..." and then listed attack with a weapon as one of the options.

Thanks,

Nick