Netbook of Feats

[Knight Otu]

DIVINE BOON [Special]
- I believe we have a feat that does something like that almost approved already. I feel that it may be safer to custom-tailor such a feat to the domain ability in general, especially if there happen to be domains that would be better of not getting this boon.

EXTRA RAGE [Rage]
- As already discussed, Fury of the Wolverine also "adds" extra uses of rage under certain conditions. Also, I think that the WotC version of the feat adds two rages?

EXTRA WILD SHAPE [Wild]
- How does this interact with other wild shape abilities, such as a druid's Elemental Wild Shape?

FIERY RAGE [Rage]

FOUL SNEAKING [Stealth]
- Should that be dazed or dazzled?

ANIMAL COMPANIONSHIP [General]
- This should only be selectable once (or maybe once per companion-granting class?), I feel.

IMPROVED SUBDUAL [General, Fighter]
- Should be ok, but somehow, non-lethal feats have had some problems being accepted in the past.

INSPIRE COOPERATION [Song]
- OK. Should be General.

PSYCHIC SENSE [Psionic]
- OK now.

SUMMONING CONCENTRATION [Magical]
- OK. Should be General.

I have to say that the Netbook seems to go a bit overboard with the feat categories.

 

[LiquidBlue]

Thank you Knight Otu for your post and for your thoughts.

I have to say that the Netbook seems to go a bit overboard with the feat categories.

I agree that it has a number of feat catagories. I have gone ahead and standarized the feat catagories for the feats in the proposal.

EXTRA WILD SHAPE [Wild]
- How does this interact with other wild shape abilities, such as a druid's Elemental Wild Shape?

Hmm. I guess there are two ways to approach this problem. (1) Go the route of Extra Turning and have the feat apply to each of the character's distinct wildshap abilities (2) Go the route of many abilities and feats (ie, +1 caster level only applies to a single chosen casting class, Weapon Focus only applies to a single chosen weapon, etc.) and specify that the character must choose upon taking the feat to which wildshape ability it applies.

By the 16th level, when the druid first acquires elemental wild shape, she already has 5 regular wild shapes, and each shape can last 16 hours, so giving an extra wildshape to each type really doesn't increase the amount of time she can be wildshaped.

The way I see it, potentially the most abusive problem of giving a druid an extra wild shape to each wildshape ability is the ability to regain hitpoints with each wild shaping. The option (1) druid who has taken the feat once can regain hit points 8 times through wildshaping while the option (2) druid who has taken the feat once can regain hitpoints 7 times through wildshaping.

Since the feat can be taken multiple times, the difference between the two will obviously grow, but I am not sure that the difference is really all that great. I think it would be acceptable to go with option (1). I will need to clarify the feat one way or another, but I would like to receive some input.

FOUL SNEAKING [Stealth]
- Should that be dazed or dazzled?

With the flavor of the feat I could see both dazed and dazzled being acceptable. I feel reluctant to add both as this is a powerful feat already. The inclusion of dazed seems to be more powerful than the inclusion of dazzled. I believe that dazed is fairly readily induced in a variety of creatures, while only a few can be dazzled.

INSPIRE COOPERATION [Song]
-OK. Should be General.

You find that the feat as proposed seems appropriate. I wonder what your and other LEW poster's thoughts are concerning the changes I proposed in my previous post.



I sincerely appreciate the thoughts that have been shared. While a couple of the feats are not yet seem ready to accept, several others seem acceptable. I invite the judges to vote on the feats that they find acceptable. (There may be feats which they believe cannot be revised to an acceptable form, in which case, it seems appropriate to vote on those as well.)

 

[Velmont]

EXTRA WILD SHAPE [Wild]
When the druid reach 16, he has Wild Shape (5/day) and Elemental Shape (1/day). A druid who has taken Extra WildShape twice would have Elemntal Shape 3/day and Wild Shape 7/day? Personaly, I think that would be too strong.

ANIMAL COMPANIONSHIP [General]
I agree it should be taken only once, and I think it shouldn't be taken at 1st level, as it would be too strong at that moment. Maybe having an effective druid level of 4 would be more reasonable.

 

[Rystil Arden]

Animal Companionship wouldn't even do anything at level 1, Velmont, so you needn't worry

 

[LiquidBlue]

An alternative to animal companionship

I have been considering a compromise feat which is useful to both the multiclass druid or ranger, and to the pure druid.

Companion Insight
Throught study and experience, you better understand your Animal Companion.
Prerequisite: Animal Companion class ability
Benefit: Treat the lower of your Knowledge(nature) or Handle Animal skill ranks as your effective druid level for the purposes of your animal companion ability.
Normal: The sum of druid levels and half ranger levels determine your effective druid level for the animal companion ability.
Special: If this feat would provide an animal companion of lesser power than the character would normally get through class abilities, its effects may be ignored.



For the player with maxed out Know(nature) and Handle Animal skills this feat allows for a slightly more powerful animal companion similar to the effects of the previously proposed feat would have if selected once.

This feat also allows the multiclasses druid or the ranger to keep an animal companion similar in power to the straight druid, at the expense of skill ranks. This feats employs a rather alien mechanic, but it seems to work well.

 

[Rystil Arden]

You need to stipulate that it doesn't let you pick up a stronger companion earlier than usual, probably.

 

[LiquidBlue]

You need to stipulate that it doesn't let you pick up a stronger companion earlier than usual, probably.

This idea needs to be addressed. With a maximum of +3 to the effective druid level, I believe the problem lies entirely at lower levels. Perhaps we need to a minimum character level as a prequisite, because even if we specifiy that one cannot obtain a more power animal sooner than is nornal, +3 to the effective druid level still produces a rather powerfuil companion.

Consider the following:

If we allow the feat to grant a more powerful animal sooner, the first level druid with this feat and maxed skills can get, as an example, a black bear with no special qualities beside 1 bonus trick, link and share spell.

However, if the first level druid with the feat and maxed skills is prohibited from obtainining a more powerful animal or elects not to, then for example she may obtain a wolf with 2 extra HD, +2 natural armor, +1 str/dex, 2 bonus tricks, link, share spell, and evasion.

These are both powerful companions.

Now is it really a problem to allow this feat to either druid at this low level? It depends. We must carefully consider whether the druid's animal companion would overshadow any other melee combatants. They are CR2 which means that it is likely more powerful than any other level 1 character. However, we must remember that the second and third level druid has animal companions exactly like the first level druid.

On the other hand it is precisely at these begining levels that the animal companion is the druid's major power, and if played properly, the animal companion's intelligence should limit its overpowering presence. Unless the druid invests many Craft Points to further train their companion, the few bonus tricks they receive are probably best invested in tricks like down, and latter, attack. (Given the power level of the companion, down is likely an essential trick for an druid that doesn't wish to see people die left and right.)

To conclude: Offsetting -3 to the druid level results in an animal companion comparable in power to gaining the animal companion powers of a druid level +3. Merely restricting more powerful animals to the proper levels does not result in the specified power balance.

Specifing a character level prequisite may be necessary, but takes this feat away from the druid exactly at the point where it would is most powerful. We must consider that absent a means to change one's feats, the druid will have to dedicate 2 skill points to maintain this feat at it maximum level, thus an early power edge in the begining is tempered by a long term investment.

 

[Rystil Arden]

If we allow the feat to grant a more powerful animal sooner, the first level druid with this feat and maxed skills can get, as an example, a black bear with no special qualities beside 1 bonus trick, link and share spell.

However, if the first level druid with the feat and maxed skills is prohibited from obtainining a more powerful animal or elects not to, then for example she may obtain a wolf with 2 extra HD, +2 natural armor, +1 str/dex, 2 bonus tricks, link, share spell, and evasion.

If you just keep my wording and don't switch to this new one, it won't do either of this things, as it will only add to the maximum of the character's character level. Thus it does nothing at all at level 1 and starts giving you a slight boost starting at level 4 by starting your advanced companion with the extra 2 HD.

 

[LiquidBlue]

If you just keep my wording and don't switch to this new one, it won't do either of this things, as it will only add to the maximum of the character's character level. Thus it does nothing at all at level 1 and starts giving you a slight boost starting at level 4 by starting your advanced companion with the extra 2 HD.

You are correct. That alternative is available and may be able to garner general support. With this feat a ranger may have an animal companion comparable to the druid's from levels 4-6, and a multi-class druid may take 3 non-druid levels without losing animal companion power.

Improved Animal Companion
You forge a greater link with your animal companion.
Prequisite: Animal Companion class ability
Benefit: Add +3 to your effective druid level for the purposes of the animal companion ability. This feat cannot bring your effective druid level above your number of HD. You may apply this feat after taking the penalty for selecting a more powerful animal to be your animal companion. In this case this feat works to offset some of that penelty

 

[LiquidBlue]

The Story for Far

DIVINE BOON:
Knight Otu has been the only one to comment on this feat at this time. He wondered whether it applies well to all eligible domain powers.

EXTRA RAGE:
The discussion of this feat has generally centered on the idea that LEW already has a feat that alls a character to rage more often. Knight Otu pointed out that the WOTC version granted 2 more rages instead of the 1 proposed. Would this feat be acceptable if it granted 2 extra rages the same as the WOTC version?

EXTRA WILD SHAPE:
There has been some question on how this feat applies to different version of the wildshape ability. Velmont has expressed the thought that letting a single of instance of the feat improved all of a character's wild shape abilities would be a little strong. WOTC has a version of the feat and it grants two extra wild shapes per feat taken. Would this feat be acceptable if it granted two extra wild shapes the same as the WOTC version?

FIERY RAGE:
Fiery Rage has not been commented on yet. If the Lasting Fury feat passes (especially with the resently proposed changes), it seems that this feat will be unnecessary.

FOUL SNEAKING:
Knight Otu has been the only one to comment on this feat, asking whether the feat should act on dazed or act on dazzled creatures.

ANIMAL COMPANIONSHIP:
This feat has been the subject of the most discussion mostly centered on whether it should stack, whether it should provide more powerful companions on so on. I will change the proposal so that the two alternatives are available to be voted on.

IMPROVED SUBDUAL:
This feat has not generated any discussion. Knight Otu noted that is seemed okay.

INSPIRE COOPERATION:
This feat has not generated any discussion. There has been no comments on my idea to expand the feat so that it grants more than one abilities for bardic music

PSYCHIC SENSE:
After some discussion, this feat has been revised, and now seems to be generally acceptable.

SUMMONING CONCENTRATION:
This feat has not generated any discussion. Knight Otu noted that is seemed okay.