D&D (2024) Playtest 6: Cleric

[Yaarel]

I think we can see where the Knowledge cleric went. I agree that it was a great Domain.

In the last playtest, when they introduced Holy Orders, one of the options was Scholar. It gave you INT-based sckills with a bonus equal to +WIS. That's clearly riffing on the core gain from the Knowledge cleric. When they combined Thaumaturge and Scholar into a single choice (my guess is that Scholar "scored" lowest), the "flavour" stayed Thaumaturge, and what had been the Knowledge Domain, having transitioned through an unsuccessful Holy Order, has now evaporated.

Incidentally, I always though Knowledge cleric was the go-to specialty for low-intelligence monster species. The Knowledge of the Ages ability allowed them to overcome any skill or tool deficits, on an day-by-day basis.

That sounds about right.

@Gradine, is there anything specific in the Knowledge domain that you would like the Thaumaturge Order to somehow inherit?

 

[Chaosmancer]

Bonus attack now refreshed on a short rest now.

So you can attack twice most of the time from level 1.

Or you can cast a spell and then attack.

I do love the change to short rest, but lets not over-state this.

Firstly, you don't get the ability until lv 3.
Secondly, you only get wis mod uses, you are going to have more than three turns between short rests. In fact, if you assume two combats and three turns per combat between rests, you are only going to be able to make this attack half the time.

However, being able to cast a spell then attack is AMAZING, and again, I love the change to short rest recovery. I just don't want to overstate the case on how often you can use war priest.

 

[Henadic Theologian]

Yeah, I am a little disappointed in Thaumaturge. It feels a bit weaker than Protector. I think it needs either another skill, or a bonus spell to make up for the Channel Divinity going to everyone.

LOVE the changes the Divine Intervention. That is reliable, powerful, and just great.

Not sure about Commune. It is fine, but meh.

I think Divine Spark is now way too weak. (will get into that in a moment)


Trickster's Magic is underwhelming I think, but also.... bonus action invisibility and bonus action Hypnotic Pattern are not bad spells. That is the entire list, which feels too small, but the few spells it works on are good. And in exchange for that AMAZING Invoke duplicity? I'll take it.

///

But.... I am utterly confused by one thing.

Why does Life Domain suck SO MUCH.

Divine Spark is a ranged 1d8+mod heal. Which is basically just a ranged cure wounds. Now, if you have disciple of life, then cure wounds is better, becoming 1d8+mod+3. However, as has been discussed many times before, the healing just isn't that good once you get past low levels. Disciple is interesting, but overall it is a drop in the bucket compared to what you need for healing.

Blessed Healer just gives that drop to the cleric as well. I mean, sure, I might regain 5 hp if I cast Aura of Vitality, but that's not exactly worth a 6th level ability.

And now Preserve Life can let you spend a channel divinity per spell level to cast an abjuration spell for free. And it starts becoming a bizzare dance. a touch 1d8+mod+3 is better than 1d8+mod at range sometimes, but it isn't better than 2d8+mod at 7th level (which is WAY too late) so you don't actually ever want to use Preserve Life to cast a 1st level healing spell, unless it is the bonus action Healing word? But every time you use Divine Spark to heal, you don't use Blessed Healer OR Disciple of Life, making them worthless. Now, maybe sanctuary or protection from good and evil could be good uses of it, but are those worth not having your extra healing?

And is there anything you could cast as a 4th level spell that is worth 16d8+20 healing NOT being used?

Like, I have a quibble or two with the other subclasses (Trickster's Magic being highly limited, being uncertain is Corona of Light is worth your action for disadvantage against damage spells alone) but the Life Domain just seems fundamentally broken, because it is constantly fighting itself.

And the other Channel Divinities?

Invoke Duplicity is superior to just about every Channel Divinity option in the base class.
Guided Strikes is a Reaction "you hit" and is way better than the divine Spark damage most of the time.
Radiance of the Dawn is better than the divine spark damage at every level, in every way.

But I just can't tell if a few extra casts of Sanctuary or Shield of Faith is actually that good for the Life Cleric.

I think Thaumaturge should should also grant knowkedge of your choice of either Celestial, Abyssal, or Infernal Languages, basically the languages of the outer Planes and 2 bonus cantrips instead of 1, I mean its vs all armour & martial weapon proof.

 

[Henadic Theologian]

In 2014 there was a huge divide on wheather Clerics should unarmed priests or armoured like in previous editions. This solves that functional bringing back the Cloistered Cleric option and embedding it in the class.

 

[TwoSix]

I think we can see where the Knowledge cleric went. I agree that it was a great Domain.

IS a great domain. It hasn't gone anywhere.

 

[Kobold Stew]

But.... I am utterly confused by one thing.

Why does Life Domain suck SO MUCH.

I think this is overstated. Life Cleric plays into a widespread understanding of what a cleric should be, and it does it well. It's not for everyone, and shouldn't be (nor is Trickery, for that matter). But it makes you the best healer in the gave, and gives you the spells you want, allowing you to choose other spells to round out the way you will offer support.

I'd always felt it was inconsistent to give Life clerics heavy armor (though I know why it happens); now with Holy Orders I can bypass that, and choose Thuamaturge instead if I want.

Most of what we see here is the same, which is right: it's a solid option already. I agree with you, though, about Preserve Life.

And now Preserve Life can let you spend a channel divinity per spell level to cast an abjuration spell for free. And it starts becoming a bizzare dance. ...

The new wording of Preserve Life is needlessly complicated: You can cast a prepared Abjuration spell using channel divinities (1/level) rather than spell slots.

I think that's all that's being said, and it is a terrible deal. The thought of spending multiple channel divinities to get access to a second or third-level spell seems foolish to me.

But overall? I think the subclass still does what it means to do, and does it well.

 

[Zaukrie]

I'm 100% for A LOT more channel divinity options, but I get why we don't have them.....like, everyone turns undead? Other than that, this looks like a pretty good class overall.

 

[Weiley31]

IS a great domain. It hasn't gone anywhere.

And EVERYTHING is still backwards compatible too!

 

[Chaosmancer]

I think Thaumaturge should should also grant knowkedge of your choice of either Celestial, Abyssal, or Infernal Languages, basically the languages of the outer Planes and 2 bonus cantrips instead of 1, I mean its vs all armour & martial weapon proof.

A language might be good, but you are tri-lingual anyways. Not sure how much a use a 4th language is.

I think just being able to choose a second skill like Persuasion or medicine would help a lot.

 

[Chaosmancer]

I think this is overstated. Life Cleric plays into a widespread understanding of what a cleric should be, and it does it well. It's not for everyone, and shouldn't be (nor is Trickery, for that matter). But it makes you the best healer in the gave, and gives you the spells you want, allowing you to choose other spells to round out the way you will offer support.

I'd always felt it was inconsistent to give Life clerics heavy armor (though I know why it happens); now with Holy Orders I can bypass that, and choose Thuamaturge instead if I want.

Most of what we see here is the same, which is right: it's a solid option already. I agree with you, though, about Preserve Life.

The new wording of Preserve Life is needlessly complicated: You can cast a prepared Abjuration spell using channel divinities (1/level) rather than spell slots.

I think that's all that's being said, and it is a terrible deal. The thought of spending multiple channel divinities to get access to a second or third-level spell seems foolish to me.

But overall? I think the subclass still does what it means to do, and does it well.

I think my bigger complaint is that, frankly, even the "best healer in the game" isn't worth it.

Let us say you are 5th level, and your fighter gets hit by a charging minotaur. They take 21 damage.

level 1 cure wounds heals 1d8+7 or 11.5
level 2 Cure Wounds heals 2d8+8 or 17
Level 3 Cure Wounds heals 3d8+9 or 22.5

A single attack from a CR 3 enemy takes your single highest spell slot to reliably heal. And, as the best healer in the game, that's only 3/4/5 pts higher than literally any other healer in the game.

Well, what if you used Aura of Vitality instead? Well, your first bonus action would be 2d6+5, but then 2d6 every other turn.


And that is it. That's the entire subclass. 3 to 5 extra hp, fighting the losing battle that is 5e combat healing. First for your target, then for yourself. You never get anything else, except for the new preserve life, which seems to be far worse than the old preserve life which had some amazing uses.