Corbert
Explorer
That's a good in for you to get a look at his sheet, requiring a copy of ALL the characters. That way he won't feel singled out later, especially if you see he's been chea... um has misunderstood some rules
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Question about the Warforged
- Thread starter Shae
- Start date
That's a good in for you to get a look at his sheet, requiring a copy of ALL the characters. That way he won't feel singled out later, especially if you see he's been chea... um has misunderstood some rules
SolosAddie
Explorer
just some thoughts. is it possible to just flat out tell the player how he's spoiling game play for others?
2) as far as i know artificers are heavily time and resource dependent. (and magic dependent)
Maybe an anti-magic field could be effective, or any enemy with saint template (immune to 3rd level and lower spells)
failing that once you get a gander at his char sheet, pick his weakest save and use some save or suck techniques.
especially if you have connected or persistent enemies they're going to tailor their attacks to neutralize or take him out.
2) as far as i know artificers are heavily time and resource dependent. (and magic dependent)
Maybe an anti-magic field could be effective, or any enemy with saint template (immune to 3rd level and lower spells)
failing that once you get a gander at his char sheet, pick his weakest save and use some save or suck techniques.
especially if you have connected or persistent enemies they're going to tailor their attacks to neutralize or take him out.
As a little aside, a little thought and creative PC design can get even non-Artificers way up there pretty quickly.
I played a Githzerai Monk who at 1st level (ECL 3) had an AC of 25 without any magical equipment (24Dex, Wis bonus to AC, and +4 from Inertial Armor racial ability).
There are also other artificers
Don't forget that there are also other artificers. They have access to some infusions that can do bad things to constructs, including warforged and their minions. Get a list of the 3.5 ed infusions for artificers. I would also think that an artificer can create objects which do nasty things to constructs (hold, damage, render inert, etc.).
In order to create objects, the creator has to have some alibi as to how they understand the properties they intend to imbue in their objects. You can't put a "bane" on a weapon against some type of monster unless you really understand their nature. Just passing a knowledge check doesn't cut it with me, you have to convince me you have the experience in your history to justify the possession of that knowledge. To put a bane vs. demons on something, you probably have to have been poking at a captured demon for awhile or access to some really enlightening tome or prior research of others. Same goes for other types (undead, outsiders, etc.)
To imitate spell effects, you have to have access and time to study said spell, whether it be through some mage/cleric or a recovered spell book, etc.
To make stuff you also have to have the appropriate tools. Unless you put a lab in a portable hole that you carry with you, I think alot of advanced crafting isn't going to be possible during an adventure.
By the way, other artificers can create weapons which are a bane to constructs.
For an artificer, you really have to insist they justify having the knowledge, time, and gp to create stuff.
And anyone who has all that nice stuff is going to become known far and wide, and become a target for others who want that stuff.
Also, think about what would happen if this scenario was real. The other players, angry with or frightened of this player, would abandon it if they were intimidated. That's one threat...the players take some opportunity to ditch it, effectively putting him outside the campaign unless it can track them down *grin*. You can tell him you don't have to time to run two parties, them, and a lone warforged.
How about a construct or artificer specific curse?
An area of effect dispel magic could do interesting things to all those enchantments for a little while, also.
Don't forget that there are also other artificers. They have access to some infusions that can do bad things to constructs, including warforged and their minions. Get a list of the 3.5 ed infusions for artificers. I would also think that an artificer can create objects which do nasty things to constructs (hold, damage, render inert, etc.).
In order to create objects, the creator has to have some alibi as to how they understand the properties they intend to imbue in their objects. You can't put a "bane" on a weapon against some type of monster unless you really understand their nature. Just passing a knowledge check doesn't cut it with me, you have to convince me you have the experience in your history to justify the possession of that knowledge. To put a bane vs. demons on something, you probably have to have been poking at a captured demon for awhile or access to some really enlightening tome or prior research of others. Same goes for other types (undead, outsiders, etc.)
To imitate spell effects, you have to have access and time to study said spell, whether it be through some mage/cleric or a recovered spell book, etc.
To make stuff you also have to have the appropriate tools. Unless you put a lab in a portable hole that you carry with you, I think alot of advanced crafting isn't going to be possible during an adventure.
By the way, other artificers can create weapons which are a bane to constructs.
For an artificer, you really have to insist they justify having the knowledge, time, and gp to create stuff.
And anyone who has all that nice stuff is going to become known far and wide, and become a target for others who want that stuff.
Also, think about what would happen if this scenario was real. The other players, angry with or frightened of this player, would abandon it if they were intimidated. That's one threat...the players take some opportunity to ditch it, effectively putting him outside the campaign unless it can track them down *grin*. You can tell him you don't have to time to run two parties, them, and a lone warforged.
How about a construct or artificer specific curse?
An area of effect dispel magic could do interesting things to all those enchantments for a little while, also.
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Herzog
Adventurer
ehawk, you're suggesting to use 'fluff' and roleplay to counter a rules lawyer....
Although that could work, you're going to have a difficult time convincing the player of these 'rules', especially if the primary DM isn't inclined to enforce them.
Really, we need those stats. Especially those of the homunculi.
the remark about casting time is important! my own artificer has spent more action points on 'quick' casting (reduce casting time to one full round instead of 1 minute) than on improving rolls. And those spells can't be on all the time. Keep track of those things, because by the sound of it, he is taking advantage of you.
And lastly, remember that although you can't dispell the warforged himself, you CAN dispell all those buffs he has.
Then, look at the craft skill in the PH. Do the math. Depending on the type and the number of ranks in the craft skill, it might take a few days up to a few weeks just to create the body.
Although that could work, you're going to have a difficult time convincing the player of these 'rules', especially if the primary DM isn't inclined to enforce them.
Really, we need those stats. Especially those of the homunculi.
the remark about casting time is important! my own artificer has spent more action points on 'quick' casting (reduce casting time to one full round instead of 1 minute) than on improving rolls. And those spells can't be on all the time. Keep track of those things, because by the sound of it, he is taking advantage of you.
And lastly, remember that although you can't dispell the warforged himself, you CAN dispell all those buffs he has.
look up the homunculus in the MM, the Eberron Campaign setting and Magic of Eberron. They have an associated Craft skill, a craft DC, and a cost.
Then, look at the craft skill in the PH. Do the math. Depending on the type and the number of ranks in the craft skill, it might take a few days up to a few weeks just to create the body.
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akbearfoot
First Post
A Warforged Psion(shaper) maybe around 7th level is just the counter you need for a abusive player like this.
Psionic inflict damage is a great power to use against other warforged and his humonculi. If you prefer something else, give him the expanded knowlege feat and have him take Energy Missile power....That way he can blast the warforged and several of his minions at a time.
Have him drink a potion of invisibility and summon a Astral Construct beside the warforged and GRAPPLE him to get past his annoying armor class. When all of his minions rush to his aid blast them all with an augmented Energy Missile for 7d6 damage each.
Even makes thematic sense.....the psion wants to take back the artificers head so he can -probe- it for all of that l337 knowlege on crafting things.
Psionic inflict damage is a great power to use against other warforged and his humonculi. If you prefer something else, give him the expanded knowlege feat and have him take Energy Missile power....That way he can blast the warforged and several of his minions at a time.
Have him drink a potion of invisibility and summon a Astral Construct beside the warforged and GRAPPLE him to get past his annoying armor class. When all of his minions rush to his aid blast them all with an augmented Energy Missile for 7d6 damage each.
Even makes thematic sense.....the psion wants to take back the artificers head so he can -probe- it for all of that l337 knowlege on crafting things.
For which he always needs to do a UMD check in order to use since he is not a spellcaster and is neither arcane nor divine too boot.
A 4th level artificer should not be to the point where those UMD checks are automatic.
An artificer must always make a UMD check in order to use any magic item that is not automatically in effect (like armors, etc.)
OP never forget this important rule - the requirement to make UMD checks almost continuously for an artificer. At higher levels they get the ability to take 10, but not at 4th level. Note that without this class ability (warlock class also has it albeit at an earlier level) you can't take 10 or 20 with a UMD check.
It shouldn't be that hard to boost skill checks...
We have a base of 7 ranks in UMD at 4th lv.
Skill focus at 1st lv for another +3 (I suppose if you are desperate, you could also take magic affinity at 1st lv and get your DM to let you retrain it later).
A custom item granting +5 UMD checks costs a paltry 2500gp, and can also be used as a receptacle for item familiar.
What is the DC at 4th lv again?
We have a base of 7 ranks in UMD at 4th lv.
Skill focus at 1st lv for another +3 (I suppose if you are desperate, you could also take magic affinity at 1st lv and get your DM to let you retrain it later).
A custom item granting +5 UMD checks costs a paltry 2500gp, and can also be used as a receptacle for item familiar.
What is the DC at 4th lv again?
Jeff Wilder
First Post
I'm really baffled by this. This is a problem player. The problem character is incidental.
I think the last time I played a game in which the DM allowed this kind of behavior to occur, I was 16 years old and it was 1984. (The two problem players were in their early- to mid-20s.) A player who behaved like this in any of our current games wouldn't make it 20 minutes before being sharply rebuked, and (if that was ignored) wouldn't make it another 10 minutes before being escorted to the door.
You and the other players, including the DM, need to talk to the player.
(Both warforged and artificers are strong, BTW. Warforged artificers are broken. The class and race pretty much eliminate each other's every weakness.)
I think the last time I played a game in which the DM allowed this kind of behavior to occur, I was 16 years old and it was 1984. (The two problem players were in their early- to mid-20s.) A player who behaved like this in any of our current games wouldn't make it 20 minutes before being sharply rebuked, and (if that was ignored) wouldn't make it another 10 minutes before being escorted to the door.
You and the other players, including the DM, need to talk to the player.
(Both warforged and artificers are strong, BTW. Warforged artificers are broken. The class and race pretty much eliminate each other's every weakness.)
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