Rogue Archer Build Tweaking

[Junkheap]

Ok guys, just started DL, and want to play an archer type. Mainly the sneaky type. Right now my plan is Rogue 3/Fig3/OOTBI(Till the ned i guess). I am Kagonesti, dex 18 str 15. Looking for high damage output mainly during the first strike, and decent damage output during the consecutive rounds. Taking rogue also for the basic rogue skills as i am the only rogue.

Right now feat selection(going down in level)

Point Blank
Precise
Weapon focus(LB)
Rapid Shot

Is this an optimal build? Looking for input. Thanx

 

[Legildur]

Since Rog3 gives you +2d6 sneak attack, I'd recommend trying to capitalise on that a little. If you are a Rogue in the forward scout role, then I can't strongly enough recommend the Improved Initiative feat.

Aside from that, why not take Ftr4 and take Weapon Specialisation (longbow) for the +2 damage?

Rog4 for Uncanny Dodge is a useful survival special ability for a forward scout, but that delays entry into your PrC even further.

And don't forget to get yourself a strength rated composite longbow.

Wearing a buckler isn't a bad idea either. If you are caught flat-footed, then you'll get the extra +1 to AC until you bring the bow into action. But you won't be able to do that until you get the level of fighter.

 

[Junkheap]

I wanted to go more of the rogue route, due to the sneak attack damage, although i have been told to take fighter 4 just for weapons specialization. Problem is would it be more beneficial to be a speedy quick damage dealer, or a longer lasting steady damage dealer. I would lose on the BAB, extra attacks, but more focused to lots of damage on little attacks, but then with fighter i would get better BAB, more damage.....

Are there any other decent archer Prestige classes other than OOTBI? Or any other good extremely focused rogue classes for speed and sneak?

 

[Darklone]

Get a ring of blinking and boots of speed. Otherwise causing damage with sneak attacks in ranged combat is nearly impossible.

 

[Kalendraf]

Get a ring of blinking and boots of speed. Otherwise causing damage with sneak attacks in ranged combat is nearly impossible.

I disagree about it being nearly impossible.

It can work if you have other melee types in your party willing to help you setup for flanking. Cunning warrior-types should have a foe in flanking by about round 2 of combat (usually left/right sides from approach direction) and can often rotate that flanking position by 45 degrees (assuming 5x5 target) using 5' free steps each subsequent round of combat if necessary. (This assumes a less intelligent foe, or one that can't easily move out of flanking due to terrain, etc.) Meanwhile, the rogue can move into a flanking position if they have the chance or wait for the warriors to line up the flanking for them. By round 3 or so, the rogue should have flanking.


I agree with the above suggestions for Improved Init. It's more important than Weapon Focus, IMHO. Point blank & precise shot are likely #1 & #2, because you will be shooting into combat and can't afford the -4 penalty of not having precise shot. After that, it's mostly a matter of taste whether Improved Init or Rapid shot is better. With more rogue levels, the Improved Init helps get an opening sneak attack more often and your BAB will be worse, so taking additional -2/-2 penalty on rapid shot is harder to overcome. With more fighter levels, the higher BAB helps overcome the rapid shot penalty, and you'll have less sneak dice to worry about getting Improved Init.

For the best archer in a sustained fight, I'd highly recommend 4 levels of fighter to get 3 extra feats, two of which should be weapon focus & weapon specialization. You'll have a higher BAB and be able to make better use of that bow round after round. With more rogue levels, you'll be limited to being a one-hit wonder in many fights, and have to depend heavily on your team mates setting up flanking for you. As I mentioned above, it can be done, but you need good team players to pull it off.

 

[Darklone]

I disagree about it being nearly impossible.

It can work if you have other melee types in your party willing to help you setup for flanking. ...

I assumed there was no houserule in use that allowed to flank with ranged weapons.

By the RAW that's not possible.

 

[Legildur]

I assumed there was no houserule in use that allowed to flank with ranged weapons.

By the RAW that's not possible.

And this is why I was recommending the Improved Initiative feat - surprise them as a scout and unleash sneak attacks. Worked extremely well for my halfling rogue with a +2 light crossbow of speed.

 

[UltimaGabe]

Get a ring of blinking and boots of speed. Otherwise causing damage with sneak attacks in ranged combat is nearly impossible.

However, if I'm not mistaken, doesn't Blink give your opponent a miss chance as well, as you're blinking out of existence not on your own accord? If that's the case (which I believe it is), then you can't Sneak Attack someone while Blinking, as you can't sneak attack an opponent with a Miss Chance.

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

If you had the rules correct, blink would negate sneak attack damage. However, sneak attack is negated by concealment not by any miss chance. The miss chance that a blinking character suffers is from becoming ethereal not from any kind of concealment so Blink doesn't prevent a blinking character from sneak attacking.

However, if I'm not mistaken, doesn't Blink give your opponent a miss chance as well, as you're blinking out of existence not on your own accord? If that's the case (which I believe it is), then you can't Sneak Attack someone while Blinking, as you can't sneak attack an opponent with a Miss Chance.

 

[Orm]

I´d suggest Rog 4 (for Uncanny Dodge)/Ftr 4 (for Weapon Spec) and Improved Initiative along with the Point Blank Shot chain.

Have you ever considered Deepwood Sniper from Masters of the Wild? Similar requirements like the OotBI and some nasty abilities. Maybe as a second PrC.

BTW, are you talking about the OotBI from Complete Warrior or Sword & Fist? For you playing a rogue, I suppose it´s from S&F.