{Settings Tournament} Round 5 - Finals! Greyhawk vs. Planescape

[Quickleaf]

I think it's fitting that these are the last two settings. They are both excellent settings, and excellent in different ways.

Greyhawk is the most iconic and solid setting of D&D. Planescape is the wildest and most imaginative setting.

Greyhawk is like an excellent steak, while Planescape is an outrageous dessert (probably some sort of flambe).

I voted Planescape, but I won't be unhappy if Greyhawk wins.

I endorse your metaphor They are both excellent (and radically different) settings. I remember the heraldry and adventures from Greyhawk, and DiTerlizzi's art and philosophical intrigue in Planescape. I, like you, am happy to see either win.

As far as what WotC *should* publish for 5e after the Forgotten Realms? I would probably say the original Greyhawk (not the redone version) as setting #2 or #3, which seems to generate the most interest and nostalgia among aging gamers. An earnest update of the Greyhawk setting to 5e without radically changing anything major would be where I'd bet my money.

 

[MarkB]

The slang is a large part of it. It made a clique: those who were versed in Planescape, and those that weren't. When I see someone calling someone else a berk, I find it extremely insulting.

I can see how that could be offputting, but I never felt anywhere near as excluded from Planescape as I did from Forgotten Realms. As a new player coming to the game in late 3.0 era, it felt like I was expected to spend six months absorbing all the FR setting books and reading, at the very least, every novel R.A. Salvatore ever wrote before I'd be considered qualified to adventure in the setting, let alone DM it.

 

[Hussar]

I can see how that could be offputting, but I never felt anywhere near as excluded from Planescape as I did from Forgotten Realms. As a new player coming to the game in late 3.0 era, it felt like I was expected to spend six months absorbing all the FR setting books and reading, at the very least, every novel R.A. Salvatore ever wrote before I'd be considered qualified to adventure in the setting, let alone DM it.

To be fair, this is precisely how I feel about PS. Every time any conversation comes up about any planar elements, I get the very strong sense that there's a deep well of material, much of it out of print, that I have to bone up on before I could even begin playing in PS.

Heck, I even gave it a try, with an excellent DM, and I still just don't get it. Fantastic adventure, excellent group, but, the setting just does nothing for me.

While I might think that Merric is being a tad harsh, I can totally see what he's saying. All you have to do is look at every single PS thread for the past three years and you'll see exactly what he's talking about.

 

[MerricB]

I can see how that could be offputting, but I never felt anywhere near as excluded from Planescape as I did from Forgotten Realms. As a new player coming to the game in late 3.0 era, it felt like I was expected to spend six months absorbing all the FR setting books and reading, at the very least, every novel R.A. Salvatore ever wrote before I'd be considered qualified to adventure in the setting, let alone DM it.

Indeed, that was a key consideration of why Wizards did what they did with the 4E Realms! Lots of canonical material is tough... especially when you're expected to adhere to it. (I mean, I was playing D&D and getting the Realms stuff when it first came out, but I left it in the 2E era for Greyhawk, and there is so much stuff I now don't know). Of course, then jettisoning it causes problems...

Settings tend to accumulate stuff, and most detailed ones are horribly intimidating for new players.

These days, I'm very fond of how Catalyst handles the BattleTech line: they release supplements for *any* of the eras, depending on what takes their fancy. So, you'll have most of the supplements being for the current era, but then they'll happily do a couple of supplements for past eras!

 

[Dice4Hire]

I can see how that could be offputting, but I never felt anywhere near as excluded from Planescape as I did from Forgotten Realms. As a new player coming to the game in late 3.0 era, it felt like I was expected to spend six months absorbing all the FR setting books and reading, at the very least, every novel R.A. Salvatore ever wrote before I'd be considered qualified to adventure in the setting, let alone DM it.

I was put off FR for much the same reason. The canon gods annoyed the living ... out of me. Players with no knowledge scores who had memorized everything, and could not eve, for any reason, have anything go against canon.

I still dread running in FR online. My own play group has no such problems.

As for me, I went with Greyhawk. Planescape never did anything for me. I never liked the great wheel cosmology.

 

[steeldragons]

Now vote for Planescape or I start posting in-character. View attachment 59963

No disrespect, Shemeska...I've seen you post this before and...I don't get it.

I mean, I can infer from the context this is meant as some kind of jokey/cutesy "threat."

I just don't get it.

To what is it referring...and why should I be [faux] "intimidated" or "scared" if you want to "post in character"?

Vote! The Chibi Lady of Pain commands it!

View attachment 59962

(I did not create the LoP chibi. I don't actually recall who did sadly. Someone on the WotC forums circa 2003, if you know, gimme the dark of it)

Cute cartoon, whoever did it. Very Invader Zim. Though I've never understood the "omgkewlniss!" folks have for the Lady of Pointy Showgirl Headdresses. *shrug* Each their own, as in all things D&D.

 

[Kinak]

One of my favorite settings up against a setting that does absolutely nothing for me. I guess that's not a difficult decision.

I'm the flip side of folks upthread talking about how they never "got" Planescape. Greyhawk was never anything more to me than someone else's homebrew D&D world. I never got the appeal.

On the other hand, it's also the classic D&D setting, so I can't begrudge it winning.

Cheers!
Kinak

 

[Mercurius]

Looks like Greyhawk is pulling away.

Anyhow, some of the comments above help clarify my thoughts about Planescape. I love the idea of it - I love the trope of the "crossroads of worlds" city, with numerous factions and a diversity of settings (planes) to play in. But I find the Planescape vibe off-putting. As I said earlier, it seems obviously created with the World of Darkness in mind, and some of the tonal qualities of Planescape that I don't like are similar to those I don't like in WoD, namely the "faux-goth" darkness-is-kewl thing which is exemplified by the Lady of Pain, who seems like a goth pre-teen magnified to divine power. I find myself reminded of the SNL skit, Goth Talk.

I don't mind goths, it just isn't my thing. I'm not saying Planescape is goth, but it has tinges of it and related tones. In fact, its the same tones that turned me off of Sandman and Neil Gaiman in general, and the vinyl-clothing-and-white-dreadlocks-and-katanas-galore of the Matrix.

Then, on the other side, you have "berk" etc, which is a bit too campy for my liking. In between both - the gothish and the campy - you have a really cool setting that, on its own, would win out over Greyhawk for me. But its just too obfuscated.

Now if Everway had been a D&D setting, that would have gotten my vote. I liked its mystical, cosmopolitan feel, which is more mythic and universal, less dated (Planescape is very 90s).

 

[Nagol]

No disrespect, Shemeska...I've seen you post this before and...I don't get it.

I mean, I can infer from the context this is meant as some kind of jokey/cutesy "threat."

I just don't get it.

To what is it referring...and why should I be [faux] "intimidated" or "scared" if you want to "post in character"?

<snip>

IIRC, Shemeska is a powerful yugoloth (NE outsiders aka daemons in earlier editions). She is a very rich, very influential member of the inner circles of Sigil who focuses on information gathering and brokering.

 

[steeldragons]

IIRC, Shemeska is a powerful yugoloth (NE outsiders aka daemons in earlier editions). She is a very rich, very influential member of the inner circles of Sigil who focuses on information gathering and brokering.

Ah. Well, that explains it. Never been to/played in Sigil, nor likely ever will.

But, at least, now I know the reference. Thanks.

Nothing to see here. Carry on.