Shields useless for non-fighters?

[fuindordm]

So I'm putting together a dragonborn paladin, and trying to choose between a two-handed weapon and a shield.

Shields give very limited bonuses to AC now: as far as I can tell, +3 is the limit (heavy+shield specialization) and that requires Dex 15--a tough target for paladins.

Fighters have a number of interesting powers that key off shields, which is motivation enough for one class.

What's the motivation for other classes? The New Math seems to imply that monster hit rates will usually be in the 40%-60% range, in which case a +2 to AC isn't very inspiring. It's a lot harder for any character to tank it up.

So here's my question: who here thinks that shields are a valuable option for other classes...and why?

Thanks!

 

[generalhenry]

+2 AC is always 10% less hits

 

[Surgoshan]

More, actually. If you only have a 50% chance of being hit, then a +2 to your AC lowers it to a 40% chance, which is a 20% difference, not 10%.

So they're useful for every role, not just the defender. But beyond defenders and some leaders, it's up to the players whether they want to pay the cost in feats in order to get the 10-20% defensive boost.

 

[Mouseferatu]

Plus, don't forget that shields also add to your Reflex defense.

 

[DLichen]

Shields don't give any penalty to attack rolls - if you're a spellcaster and can afford the requirements, its +1 ac and reflex for a very small investment since it doesn't penalize you at all.

Shield spec is not meant to be taken by Paladins and Fighters at any rate, since they most likely qualify for armor specialization which doesn't stack with shield spec.

 

[Noinarap]

Shields don't give any penalty to attack rolls - if you're a spellcaster and can afford the requirements, its +1 ac and reflex for a very small investment since it doesn't penalize you at all.

Shield spec is not meant to be taken by Paladins and Fighters at any rate, since they most likely qualify for armor specialization which doesn't stack with shield spec.

Shield spec is actually pretty good for fighters and paladins. Anyone who has a decent Dex and wears plate gets more from Shield Spec than from Plate Spec. +1 to AC & Reflex is better than +1 to AC. Flail, Heavy Blade, Light Blade, and Spear users all benefit from a good Dex, so this would be pretty common.

A fighter who prefers the lower ACP of scale can still benefit from the Reflex boost from Shield Spec, although losing the penalty to speed via Scale Spec is pretty good. For a dwarf in scale, Shield Spec is strictly better than Scale Spec, since the latter overlaps with racial benefits.

Also, a fighter in scale could benefit from both Shield Spec and Scale Spec. The armor bonuses are redundant, but the other two benefits are still worth a feat in many cases.

 

[FireLance]

Shield spec is not meant to be taken by Paladins and Fighters at any rate, since they most likely qualify for armor specialization which doesn't stack with shield spec.

Shield Specialization is better than Plate Mail specialization, though, if you can afford the 15 Dex.

Fortunately, my elf paladin can.

 

[frankthedm]

Shields give very limited bonuses to AC now:

EVERYTHING gives very limited bonuses to AC now. Cover went from 4 points to 2, Improved Cover went down from 8 to 5. Fighting defensively and Full defense also got cut in half and Firing into melee and through allies does not penalize to hit.

The New Math seems to imply that monster hit rates will usually be in the 40%-60% range, in which case a +2 to AC isn't very inspiring. It's a lot harder for any character to tank it up.

Correct! A player character is supposed to be hit routinely, thats why all characters have HP to survive multiple hits and Healing Surges. Players are not allowed to be unhittable unless their foes are significantly lower leveled.

 

[Gloombunny]

Consider, also, that using a shield doesn't decrease your offense by very much, assuming you're willing to spend a feat on bastard sword proficiency. (And as feats go, it's a very good pick.)

 

[Destil]

Also, a fighter in scale could benefit from both Shield Spec and Scale Spec. The armor bonuses are redundant, but the other two benefits are still worth a feat in many cases.

Unless I've missed something it would be better to take Scale and Lightning Reflexes? No Dex needed, extra +1 reflex...