Sneaky Mage: Party Role and Optimization

[Wolfwood2]

I know it's already been said, but don't worry about doing damage. That's what the rest of your party is for.

A beguiler is the ultimate set-up man. You trick your enemies and impose status effects on them. You enhance your friends and help them better beat down foes. Don't think about, "What can I do this round?". Think about, "How can I help one of my allies do something this round?"

Damage is what you do when you can't think of anything more useful to do.

I'm playing a Beguiler at level 8. Three or four times now the entire party has been able to ambush an enemy because I put an Invisibility Sphere around the whole group. Last session we got jumped by four hill giants. I slapped down a Confusion and we watched two of them beat each other to death, while a third gibbered, and we concentrated on the last. So often a Beguiler has the right spell for any given situation.

 

[Slaved]

I think your plane of origin remains the Prime Material Plane . . . but at level 5, I sure hope our enemies aren't packing Dismissal.

The template makes you [Extraplanar] whenever you are not on the Plane of Shadow. To me that says a Dismissal spell will send you to the Plane of Shadow whenever you are not there and have the item working on you.

Dismissal is only a fourth level Cleric spell. At level five facing off an enemy cleric two levels higher is not out of the question at all. If they have seen you fighting ahead of time or used divination spells they might know just the right spell to send you far, far away.......

 

[moritheil]

Dismissal is only a fourth level Cleric spell. At level five facing off an enemy cleric two levels higher is not out of the question at all. If they have seen you fighting ahead of time or used divination spells they might know just the right spell to send you far, far away.......

Well, if they have seen me, I've pretty much failed. That's the sticking point with a build that relies on hiding all the time.

That said, at least it's a will save. I'd be more afraid of 20 con damage from a touch attack, being grappled by a huge summoned monster, or being flat-out shredded in one round of melee with said 7th level cleric.

Damage is what you do when you can't think of anything more useful to do.

This quote really struck me. Thanks!

 

[moritheil]

I already decided on Beguiler for this campaign, as it is much simpler and fits with both my character story and the campaign limitations, but for those who crave the flexibility a wizard/rogue offers, the Magelord looks pretty good:

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20050202a&page=2

 

[Haffrung Helleyes]

I already decided on Beguiler for this campaign, as it is much simpler and fits with both my character story and the campaign limitations, but for those who crave the flexibility a wizard/rogue offers, the Magelord looks pretty good:

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20050202a&page=2

That's a wierd prestige class. The 10,000gp entry requirement is especially odd... can you then recoup your expenses by teaching the magelord secrets to other wizards and getting 10,000gp per pop?

I am thinking that the large number of sub-optimal feats, plus the mandatory 2 level dip in rogue for Evasion, make the cost unnecessary from a play-balance perspective. What do you think?

Ken

 

[moritheil]

I think a wizard/rogue should be able to get money pretty easily. I agree that it would be a problem if your DM was a stickler for wealth guidelines, though.

Thoughts on the beguiler: it's really interesting how the class encourages you to think with finesse. The sorc gets a lot of more powerful spells but doesn't often have precisely the right spell for the situation, thus leading to more of an "I have a hammer, this looks like a nail" approach. The beguiler really rewards careful attention to detail in its role as controller. Numerous less powerful but more optimal spells make it not a class for beginning players.

 

[szilard]

Thoughts on the beguiler: it's really interesting how the class encourages you to think with finesse. The sorc gets a lot of more powerful spells but doesn't often have precisely the right spell for the situation, thus leading to more of an "I have a hammer, this looks like a nail" approach. The beguiler really rewards careful attention to detail in its role as controller. Numerous less powerful but more optimal spells make it not a class for beginning players.

Yup. That's why I like it. The spell list really plays to creative problem-solving.

-Stuart

 

[moritheil]

Yup. That's why I like it. The spell list really plays to creative problem-solving.

-Stuart

Well, the downside is that you have to know your spells in exacting detail. Normally if you play a blaster there aren't many details to remember ("What's this spell?" "It's like fireball, except with ice, and in a cone.")

 

[eamon]

Thoughts on the beguiler: it's really interesting how the class encourages you to think with finesse. The sorc gets a lot of more powerful spells but doesn't often have precisely the right spell for the situation, thus leading to more of an "I have a hammer, this looks like a nail" approach. The beguiler really rewards careful attention to detail in its role as controller. Numerous less powerful but more optimal spells make it not a class for beginning players.

Yeah, I really like the class, myself. I also like how well it is suited for a party in which no one wants to play a rogue. The party I'm currently DM-ing missed a pretty big horde (about 2 times wealth by level for a single PC) recently by failing search checks, even though they suspected there were secret doors and tried looking for them. Boy, is it hard to keep your mouth shut in that situation; but nobody likes playing a rogue in that group (and I can't blame em, neither do I). Ah well, that's the trade-off for being better at other things!

 

[eamon]

Well, the downside is that you have to know your spells in exacting detail. Normally if you play a blaster there aren't many details to remember ("What's this spell?" "It's like fireball, except with ice, and in a cone.")

Oh, and it contains the horribly designed legion of sentinels, which I hereby vote "Worst game mechanic of the PHB2". I mean, is it 3D? Can you cast it mid air? Are you really going to keep track of all those separate entities, each with an AoO per round (but only one!) and a separate hitpoint pool? Do you want to spend all that dice rolling resolving tons of attacks, which can all generate critical hits and might include flanking bonuses, but which might not?