So, about Expertise...

[Mengu]

I really dislike this feat. Why couldn't they just issue errata if they thought there was something wrong with the attack bonuses? A +1 at levels 5, 15, and 25 would solve the problem. Now I feel like they are shorting everyone a feat.

This feat literally beats:

Warforged Tactics
Lolth's Meat
Purifying Light
Bracing Breath
Halfling Stalwart
Offensive Resilience
Prime Strike
Combat Reflexes
Nimble Blade
Hawkeye Warrior
Improved Prime Shot
Prime Hunter

All these feats give a conditional +1 bonus, while expertise is unconditional (or may as well be since you typically use the same weapon or implement). How do they even pretend this feat is balanced against other feats of a similar nature?

This is also a feat that continues to widen the gap between optimized and non-optimized characters. At first level, when you put the 16 charisma dwarf paladin with waraxe next to the 20 strength human fighter with bastard sword and expertise, the difference in attack bonuses are +5 with Enfeebling Strike vs +12 with Brash Strike. If these two characters were in the same party, the dwarf player would understandably be highly frustrated.

I have a feeling many platesters and possibly even some designers have passionately fought against this feat, but lost the battle in the end. I just am curious to hear the other side of the argument.

 

[Branduil]

I have a hard time believing this was playtested. It's obviously a math fix and its implementation as a feat is full of problems.

 

[Kzach]

The answer is apparently now available.

I guess it'd be too much to ask for a consensus

Will giving a +1 each tier for free imbalance or rebalance things?

I'd hate to think people are forced to spend a feat slot just to rebalance things.

As disappointing as it would be to realise that the designers screwed up the math (again, ie. skill challenges), I see no problem with having a default rule that says everyone gets a bonus to hit (on everything) at 5th, 15th and 25th-levels IF it's rebalancing the system.

 

[Kzach]

It's disappointing is what it is. I'll have to convince my DM to just give everyone a +1 to hit at 5, 15, 25. Or maybe 1, 11, 21. I also think it might be a good idea to add in +1 to all stats at 4, 8, 11, 14, 18, 21, 24, 28, to change the non ac defenses to scale properly. Also helps certain classes like paladins, clerics, melee rangers, star pact warlocks.

Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait...

I was just starting to understand the math here and then you throw this spanner in my brain!

Are we only talking about AC as being imbalanced? If so, why not just make the +1 bonus only affect attacks against AC?

 

[Mr. Wilson]

Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait...

I was just starting to understand the math here and then you throw this spanner in my brain!

Are we only talking about AC as being imbalanced? If so, why not just make the +1 bonus only affect attacks against AC?

He's talking about player defenses there, which is a seperate issue.

The problem is every character needs an additional +1 per tier to match the scaling monster defenses at certain points in that tier.

 

[Branduil]

How about this feat instead:

MATH EXPERTISE
Prereq: You don't want to suck.
Benefit: You get a +1 bonus to attack rolls at level 5. At 15th level, this bonus increases to +2. At 25th level, this bonus increases to +3.
You get a +1 bonus to non-AC defenses at level 5. At 15th level, this bonus increases to +2. At 25th level, this bonus increases to +3.
Special: You get this feat for free at 5th level.

 

[Wepwawet]

Where is this feat published??

 

[Mr. Wilson]

How about this feat instead:

MATH EXPERTISE
Prereq: You don't want to suck.
Benefit: You get a +1 bonus to attack rolls at level 5. At 15th level, this bonus increases to +2. At 25th level, this bonus increases to +3.
You get a +1 bonus to non-AC defenses at level 5. At 15th level, this bonus increases to +2. At 25th level, this bonus increases to +3.
Special: You get this feat for free at 5th level.

Lols.

Wepwawet, the feat we're talking about is from PHB2, which is currently not out yet in the States, but is out in Japan thanks to Amazon.

 

[Oompa]

Well.. I leave the feat at it.. if my players take it, they take it.. if they leave it.. they leave it..

 

[deleteme123456]

Well.. I leave the feat at it.. if my players take it, they take it.. if they leave it.. they leave it..

And if they don't take it by mid-paragon, they're obviously not thinking clearly. As stated before, I could easily live without this for most of heroic. My TWF Ranger is desperate for feats... even with the DM granting a bonus feat for backstory, my Level 5 ranger has taken:
Double Sword (how else am I going to afford two weapons?)
TWF
TWD
Chain

I'd still really like to take weapon focus, but I'm finally at the point where I can probably pick this up. If not for the DM bonus feat, I'd need to wait until level 8. And at 10, I want to pick up Scale so I can get Scale spec right away at 11th, and it's not like any of these are really retrainable.

But given the choice between weapon focus and this? It's really a no-brainer.