doctorbadwolf
Heretic of The Seventh Circle
Extra dice on a hit representing more attacks.
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D&D (2024) So how long until Playtest Packet 8?
- Thread starter Kobold Stew
- Start date
doctorbadwolf
Heretic of The Seventh Circle
We’ll see what the martial arts attack looks like in the next packet, I’m sure.
I hope they aren’t gonna do that. It would just make the monk a high system mastery class in the worst way.
It literally mentions daggers specifically as an example in the 1st level weapon mastery ability monks got. It's a pretty obvious combousing the example weapon and the first level abilities alone. "I can use weapons & get weapon mastery on simple weapons>what does this simple weapon in the example allow" is hardly "system mastery" let alone anywhere near "high" levels of system mastery.
Changing it to no longer allow that would be rather disappointing both from a flavor standpoint & the way that hobbles me as a gm from making equipment my players care about getting for their PCs.
doctorbadwolf
Heretic of The Seventh Circle
The feature does not say that you can make the martial arts attack even if you’ve made a TWF attack, so it is a feature that requires examination of the system in order to work in the way being discussed. It’s that simple.
Yes it does, the first level martial arts feature is split across two pages.... Look at the top where it says "Bonus Unarmed Strike", it follows from this on the previous page where it said
simple weapons are mentioned two times there before continuing to the Bonus Unarmed Strike where Simple weapons are mentioned for a third time. They are mentioned again for the 4th time in the Dexterous Attacks section & for the fifth time in the weapon mastery feature itself where it even mentions simple weapons two more times while noting for specific weapons.
That only leaves dagger.... "Dagger 1d4 Piercing Finesse, Light, Thrown (Range 20/60) Nick ",
LIGHT
When you take the Attack action on your turn
and attack with a Light weapon, you can make
one extra attack as a Bonus Action later on the
same turn. That extra attack must be made with
a different Light weapon, and you don’t add your
ability modifier to the extra attack’s damage,
unless that modifier is negative.
For example, if you take the Attack action on
your turn and have a Shortsword in one hand
and a Dagger in the other—each of which has the
Light property—you can make one attack with
each weapon, using your action and a Bonus
Action, but you don’t add your Strength or
Dexterity modifier to the damage roll of the
Bonus Action, unless that modifier is negative.
When you take the Attack action on your turn
and attack with a Light weapon, you can make
one extra attack as a Bonus Action later on the
same turn. That extra attack must be made with
a different Light weapon, and you don’t add your
ability modifier to the extra attack’s damage,
unless that modifier is negative.
For example, if you take the Attack action on
your turn and have a Shortsword in one hand
and a Dagger in the other—each of which has the
Light property—you can make one attack with
each weapon, using your action and a Bonus
Action, but you don’t add your Strength or
Dexterity modifier to the damage roll of the
Bonus Action, unless that modifier is negative.
NICK
Prerequisite: Light Property
When you make the extra attack of the Light
property, you can make it as part of the Attack
action, instead of as a Bonus Action. You can still
make this extra attack only once per turn.
Prerequisite: Light Property
When you make the extra attack of the Light
property, you can make it as part of the Attack
action, instead of as a Bonus Action. You can still
make this extra attack only once per turn.
doctorbadwolf
Heretic of The Seventh Circle
You literally just proved my point, melodramatically.
The Monk class feature does not say that you can make a TWF attack and a martial arts attack in the same turn. Mentioning simple weapons is irrelevant. It could mention them in every sentence of the class writeup, and it wouldn’t change that nowhere does it say what you are trying to claim it says.
You can use the biggest font possible, it doesn’t change what is in the monk feature writeup.
Literally nothing you quoted makes the interaction in question explicitly clear in the feature text. The player has to know how the monk works and how TWF with a Nick weapon works, and have a DM that doesn’t think it’s broken (it’s not, but that doesn’t stop DMs banning stuff), and not assume that the Nick property’s language stating that you can still take this additional attack once means you can take any additional attack in the same turn.
Meanwhile, the rule will be clarified before print if it stays, because martial arts and TWF aren’t the only ways to make bonus action attacks.
So, as I said (objectively correctly) we will see when the monk is next playtested and then when the book come out.
"twf attack" is not a thing. read the light weapon property from packet7, I even took the time to quote it for you in the post you quoted.
The monk features tell you a simple weapon works... The light weapon property of the simple weapon dagger grants you the extra attack & Nick changes that attack to be done as part of the action instead of as a bonus action where your bonus action is now unused & free to use for your other monk feature.
Monk even has a 1st level ability that tells you about your ability to use weapon masteries on light weapons where it specifically lists dagger.
The martial arts feature tells you that you can use a simple weapon... It's not "system mastery" as you claimed to check what the weapon in the example does.
"TWF" is not a thing of relevance, read the light weapon property, it tells you to use a second weapon. It's only the extra rules you are attempting to fabricate into the monk abilities causing a "problem" for a player following the example pointed out across 2 of their 3 first level abilities. Wotc can't be expected to print rules to clarify a rule you are fabricating on top of the light weapon property or a different version of the monk martial arts feature by pulling from a different edition.The player has to know how the monk works and how TWF with a Nick weapon works, and have a DM that doesn’t think it’s broken (it’s not, but that doesn’t stop DMs banning stuff), and not assume that the Nick property’s language stating that you can still take this additional attack once means you can take any additional attack in the same turn.
Meanwhile, the rule will be clarified before print if it stays, because martial arts and TWF aren’t the only ways to make bonus action attacks.
So, as I said (objectively correctly) we will see when the monk is next playtested and then when the book come out.
doctorbadwolf
Heretic of The Seventh Circle
Bud, I’m gonna stop engaging on this topic after this reply.
If you are going to be so egregiously and uselessly pedantic as to “correct” the shorthand of “TWF attack”, then you cannot possibly be engaging seriously and in good faith.
The alternative is that you don’t understand that TWF refers to…using two weapons…to fight.
The bolded text is absolute gibberish, as well.
Last edited:
Packet seven came out a few days ago, you should download and read it before making authoritative claims or speak of things like "good faith" about it if you aren't going to do so when it gets quoted to you.
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doctorbadwolf
Heretic of The Seventh Circle
I always love when someone displays extremely poor reading comprehension while trying to talk down to someone about whether they read the relevant text. 
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