Stalker0's New Skill Challenge System (Version 1.0)

[hcm]

However, daredevil stunt DOES have a cost. It bumps the difficulty of the skill your using to a hard difficulty, that could be a net +4 to +7 in difficulty. And it counts as a success or a failure as normal, so if a player attempts a DD stunt and fails, that's a failure for the skill challenge.

You're right -- I misread, sorry. I'd like to see more of that kind of choice .

 

[Stalker0]

Great system, Stalker0. I much prefer it over WotC's basic system. One question, however.

One of your assumptions is that you'd like to see PCs succeeding around 80% of the time with a skill challenge. I'd like to set the baseline slightly lower, closer to 65%. Could that be achieved in a rough way by just adding +1 to all the DCs you provide for the Skill DC Table?

Sure. As a very rough gauge, adding +1 to the DC will drop the players win rate by 8% for a complexity 1, 10% for a complexity 2 and around 12% for a complexity 3. Be cautious though, a +1/-1 here or there should be fine, but even a +2 can make quite a difference.

Also, keep in mind that my tables average a party's skill number through 1-3 level, 4-6th, etc. There 1st level numbers will be lower than the average, and there 3rd level slightly above. With that in mind, what I would do is use the system as is at 1st level (as the win rate will drop a bit and be more into your desired range). Then by 2nd level it will jump up a bit. By 3rd level, add in your +1 to DC to get the win rate back the way you like it. Then at 4th and 5th level drop your +1 to DC, and add it back in at 6th level, etc etc.

In addition, if you want just bump up the complexity 1 notch to make the challenge harder. One advantage of my system over the base system is that higher complexity ALWAYS equal a harder challenge. Using a complexity 3 instead of a complexity 1 will lower the win rate by about 10% using your standard numbers.

 

[BarkingDeathSquirrel]

If someone could tell me how to do that in detail I would really appreciate it. I have no idea how to use code for enworld.

The [*code] tag just preserves extra whitespace (tabs and extra spaces), as well as having all characters take up the same amount of space.

So you could have something like this:

Level      Easy     Med      Hard
 1-3        14       17       21
 4-6        15       18       23
 7-9        17       20       26

Use something like Notepad to design it in, then just copy and paste it into a code block.

As for the system itself, I really haven't gotten a good chance to look over the skill challenge system, but the chance to succeed bit does kind of worry me.

 

[Dave Turner]

Sure. As a very rough gauge, adding +1 to the DC will drop the players win rate by 10% for a complexity 1 and around 15% for a complexity 3. Be cautious though, a +1/-1 here or there should be fine, but even a +2 can make quite a difference.

Also, keep in mind that my tables average a party's skill number through 1-3 level, 4-6th, etc. There 1st level numbers will be lower than the average, and there 3rd level slightly above. With that in mind, what I would do is use the system as is at 1st level (as the win rate will drop a bit and be more into your desired range). Then by 2nd level it will jump up a bit. By 3rd level, add in your +1 to DC to get the win rate back the way you like it. Then at 4th and 5th level drop your +1 to DC, and add it back in at 6th level, etc etc.

In addition, if you want just bump up the complexity 1 notch to make the challenge harder. One advantage of my system over the base system is that higher complexity ALWAYS equal a harder challenge. Using a complexity 3 instead of a complexity 1 will lower the win rate by about 10% using your standard numbers.

Excellent news and a nice, nuanced tweak. Stellar work, Stalker0.

 

[Stalker0]

I appreciate it all the comments so far. Just to let you all know, this system is not done yet.

I've mentioned the variance problem several times, and it remains the biggest unsolved one yet. However, I have just had a brainstorm, and I hope to run the numbers and see if it works out. I may be able to tighten the variance between complexities and when changing individual roles with a single, simple rule. Stay tuned!!

 

[Angellis_ater]

I might be a moron when it comes to math, but how well would this system translate to a 3.5 model?

 

[Stalker0]

I might be a moron when it comes to math, but how well would this system translate to a 3.5 model?

The short answer is....no

The long answer is that 3.5's skill system has a HUGE variance compared to 4e's. The number of skill bonuses and differences are vast. WOTC's current system is very intolerable of variance, even a +2 difference to a skill can have a large impact. Unfortunately, while I've curbed some of that, my system still has a variance problem. So no, this would not be a good system to import to 3.5.

 

[The Eye]

Stalker,

Thanks for putting this together. I didn't think about the problems with the RAW skill challenges, but once you point them out they seem obvious. I'm glad someone took the time to come up with an alternate system that gives the PCs a much better chance to overcome skills challenges. It leaves plenty of room for disastrous failure, but focuses mainly on player creativity and success. I dig it.

 

[Terramotus]

Stalker,

Thanks for putting this together. I didn't think about the problems with the RAW skill challenges, but once you point them out they seem obvious. I'm glad someone took the time to come up with an alternate system that gives the PCs a much better chance to overcome skills challenges. It leaves plenty of room for disastrous failure, but focuses mainly on player creativity and success. I dig it.

Agreed. Stalker, when you're satisfied with the system, I think you would be doing the entire community a favor by collecting your new system, the FAQ, and the math behind why the existing system is broken into a PDF. It's not hard, and I'm sure you could find a number of individuals ready to help you, including myself, if you needed any assistance in that.

 

[Angellis_ater]

I would have to second the above, get this into a PDF, I will offer up DSP to both host it, post it and help you design it (once the GSL is out so we know what we can do, legally).

However, referring back to 3.5, if one would assume a smaller variance (no skill boosting items, only Skill Focus as a "skill boosting feat" and normal ranks?) - does it translate better?