Star Wars and its faithful

[Wayside]

I only meant to debunk what I perceived as a false belief among the most fanatical that Lucas had had started out with some detailed, grandiose vision of what’s become the Star Wars universe.

I don't understand your point here. Nobody starts with a complete vision. You might think you do, or you might have some vision when you begin that feels complete (feels and is are two different things), but then you start writing, and things change. When you start writing things always change, at least they do if you have any talent for writing. So if this is supposed to be a criticism I don't follow--you'd be criticizing every talented writer who ever lived.

I've met so many fans who adhere to the belief that Lucas is some kind of sci-fi Tolkien, who had this expansive world and its structures already planned out in detail from the get-go

First, I wouldn't give any special weight to what Lucas says occured in the process of writing the Star Wars movies now. His statements aren't exactly sterling evidence (unless you happen to want to believe them, in which case clearly they are canon--but you already said there is no canon, so there goes that). If it were something that interested me, I'd want to go back and actually see the drafts, omissions, changes myself. Textual criticism can actually be really fun, as Professor Tolkien knew.

Second, how the movies arrived at their final form is ultimately irrelevant to an appreciation of the movies themselves as they are. Whether you believe Lucas planned the movies as they are from the beginning (impossible), or slowly developed them into what they have become, they are still what they are. The final results, the movies themselves, do not change, so this sort of picking over process is fairly meaningless (of course some minor changes were made with the special editions; people who let that adversely affect their experience of the movies are being silly).

Third, Lucas is a kind of sci-fi Tolkien. This judgment has less to do with elevating Lucas than with taking Tolkien down a peg from the religious stature you've given him here. You believe, what, that several thousand pages came to Tolkien in a flash? That he was channeling some divine Muse? As long as you're ranting about the 'faithful,' you might want to examine your own beliefs. Tolkien's stature has to do with his public, not with any special qualities of his writing (of course his public will claim otherwise). Lucas' stature is comparable. They're both good fun.

Yes, I know the meaning of the word, “canon”. But I think it’s grossly overused and not particularly applicable to any collaborative fictional settings -- due in part to the connotation of ultimate authority that it conveys. However, if the idea helps frame your discussions of material and distinquish between ‘official’ and ‘unofficial’, so be it.

Any fictional setting, or writing of any kind, is to some extent collaborative. Everybody has sources, everybody gets notes, develops, revises. The stories aren't born full-formed like Athena from the head of Zeus. In the case of Star Wars, all roads lead through Lucas. What more canon, exactly, are you looking for?

 

[Chain Lightning]

Thing is, Star Wars isn't just Lucas's. Star Wars was a collaberative effort of artists, costumers, musicians, screenwriters and directors. That is what made the original trilogy great. Lucas didn't have carte blanche. Now that he does, well, we've seen the result.

I tend to agree with this analysis more. There are different types of directors out there working. There are those that trust the leader of each department and their judgements, and those that take control of every little thing. Either way is neither right or wrong.

James Cameron is one of those guys who puts his input deeply in each department. Yes, he sometimes upsets people, but the results are good. Lucas is very much "noodling" every little detail too.

But with Lucas, I think he could benefit from considering other opinions from his staff. This would help because, as good as Lucas is at directing, he's coming off like a 20 year hiatus. Lucas back then and Lucas now are two different things. Back then, he was fresh from film school, the 'directorial film muscles' in shape and he had it fresh. But after starting up again after being gone from the director's chair for that many years, it obviously shows.

Yes, the Star Wars movies are popcorn movies. I've always treated them as such. I love that kind of movie going experience. But that doesn't mean we expect a lower standard. The storytelling medium of film still needs to be handled well.

Granted, I'm not one of those guys that had a hissy fit when Episode One came out. I had a friend that did and man, it was hard to watch. But the movies are flawed.

Are they as bad as movies like "Dreamcatcher" or "Darkness"? No. Not at all. No where near as bad as that.

Even though the new Star Wars films are flawed, it doesnt' mean they aren't enjoyable. In a way, despite their many flaws, I still enjoy watching them. But I admit, its for a different reason now. I watch them more in a "MST3K" kinda way. Laughing at every silly creative decision I see manifest on the screen.

But why do people get so worked up? Well, the crazy fanatics get worked up because they're crazy. But the middle normal get worked up too. However, don't lump them in with the fanatic crazies. They get worked up for a different reason. Its more simply that they hate seeing a good opportunity missed. There was an opportunity to make cool prequels there. Lucas messed it up at least 2 of them. Now, no one can go back and tell that tale properly (at least on the big screen). Can't go back now . . . too late to truly fix it.

And let's not say that they were disappointed because their expectations were too high. C'mon, it would've been okay if the quality matched at least the first three films. It didn't have to revolutionize the art of directing or anything.

 

[Silver Moon]

I like Star Wars but don't consider myself a fanatic. One thing that I have observed though (and a friend of manages a comic book shop confirmed) is that you should NEVER try to make any sort of a Star Wars related joke or pun around the true fanatics. They will not stand by and allow their passion to be made sport of*.






*With the possible exception of Jar Jar Binks, who seems to be fair game to all.

 

[Ranger REG]

But why do people get so worked up?

Because they take it as a personal offense, that the Prequel didn't bring them back to their childhood the way they watched the Original.

They didn't want Anakin to act like an archetypal real-life prodigy, frequently prone to angry outbursts. They wanted someone who mastered his anger and act all pompous and calmly self-righteous, like he knows he is the Chosen One, and all Jedi are but his potential future worshippers.

That and the dialogue could be a little bit more modern, like Kevin Sorbo's in Andromeda and Hercules.

 

[mojo1701]

That and the dialogue could be a little bit more modern, like Kevin Sorbo's in Andromeda and Hercules.

What, like some sort of Greek god?

 

[Mystery Man]

edit: And I call Troll

and after the first sentence even.

 

[Neo]

You haven't met Trek fans, who are notoriously clear on what is canon and non-canon.

heh sounds a lot like Traveller players

 

[mojo1701]

heh sounds a lot like Traveller players

What, like that one episode of TNG?

 

[Torm]

Three things to fix Star Wars:

1. Han SHOT FIRST!

2. Fix this in your mind: You have never seen or heard of Jake Lloyd. Young Anakin was played by Haley Joel Osmont, and he did an excellent job.

3. When Jar-Jar is explaining why he was exiled, immediately after he says, "meesa clumsy", imagine him muttering something about falling on Boss Nass's daughter.

 

[Darth K'Trava]

Three things to fix Star Wars:

1. Han SHOT FIRST!

Of which my friends and I wholeheartedly agree!

2. Fix this in your mind: You have never seen or heard of Jake Lloyd. Young Anakin was played by Haley Joel Osmont, and he did an excellent job.

But, Annie!!! [whine]

3. When Jar-Jar is explaining why he was exiled, immediately after he says, "meesa clumsy", imagine him muttering something about falling on Boss Nass's daughter.

Ok, I know you were weird before, but you're totally SICK now, Torm!!!

Basically I hope we see him die in Ep. III!!!!