D&D 5E Stat buy-in points

[Hereticus]

In my old AD&D and 2e games, we used to role for stats, and that lasted into 3e. At some point we went to the buy-in system, mostly because too many people were showing up with old characters that had really great stats.

We eventually settled with the standard 20 point buy-in, starting with all 10s, with an 8 minimum. Most people went for something like 16, 14, 14, 10, 10, 10. In 4e with each race getting two +2s to stats, that combo turned into 18, 16, 14, 10, 10, 10. That would be equivalent to a 32 point buy-in (with the two bonuses).

Now we have 5e giving a 27 point buy-in, starting with six 8s. That is the equivalent of a 15 point standard buy-in. I cringed at that, as did my players.

I never liked the idea of characters getting specific bonuses to certain stats based on race. Most players would select their race based on what stat bonuses it gave their class, so there was not enough diversity in race/class combos.

What I decided to do in my new 5e campaign will be to keep the 32 point buy-in, to eliminate the +2 stat bonus that each race is allotted, and if a sub-race receives an additional bonus I will give them something else of similar value. What I hope to achieve over time is a wider range of race/class combinations. However to maintain some sort of "purity", I will use the standard racial bonuses for NPCs.

At some point the stat 20 max will be challenged, and I'm not sure how I will address it. My initial thought is to let it be broken.

I would like to get some feedback; would this interest you as a player, or should I have kept it "by the book"?

 

[Tormyr]

So will every human be a variant human build then to balance out their lack of non-ability score stuff?

Depending on how they use their racial stat bonuses in normal point buy, they will get much more than a 32 point buy in. A halfling rogue spending to get Dex to 15 and its racial bonus taking that to 17 is worth how many more points?

As I player, I would want it by the book. As a DM, I have noticed quite a bit of diversity at my table. I have a Half-Gnoll Paladin, Tiefling Wizard, Human Monk, High Elf Eldritch Knight, Lightfoot Halfling Rogue/Monk, Dragonborn Wizard, and Human Cleric (whose player just moved away). The Half-Gnoll Paladin chose an 8 in his Charisma score. The Tiefling and Dragonborn both chose Wizard instead of Sorcerer or Warlock. I personally think that most players play the race they want to play.

As a DM, I would say that the 20 ability score max should be set. Otherwise Bounded Accuracy takes a hit. With a +11 to hit around level 17, they will be able to hit pretty much anything anyway, and save DCs will be set at 19 which is ridiculously high. If you go beyond 20, someone would need a nat 20 to make save if the had no bonus in that save.

If you keep character creation by the book, you shouldn't get any push back on the 20 stat max.

 

[MonsterEnvy]

You should keep it by the book. You are going to screw up the balance of the game if you let the numbers go past 20. The Numbers are lower in this edition but you are not less powerful. Also you are supposed to pick race before class.

Also lastly stats at creation are supposed to cap at 15 for a reason.

 

[delericho]

Your proposed point-buy system seems fine, though it's not what I would use. However, I would certainly not let the ability cap of 20 be broken.

 

[Lrdroland]

I think he is more asking about wether or not taking the racial bonuses away and giving every character more to buy with. I think you are going to chose a race that you want in the end for whatever reason. A race's racial stat bonus makes them good at some classes over others. This is why there are more High Elf Wizards than Wood Elf Wizards because they are naturally good at it. When you look at population averages this will be reflected so your games class/race combinations that might seem min/maxed are actually on par with what you would expect to find in the world. Would it be harder to find a High Elf Druid or a Wood Elf Druid? I don't see a reason to get rid of the racial stat bonuses unless it made sense in your world for every race have equal number of every class.

How would you handle this for humans? They are seriously lacking in anything if they don't get the stat bonuses.

 

[delericho]

I think he is more asking about wether or not taking the racial bonuses away and giving every character more to buy with. I think you are going to chose a race that you want in the end for whatever reason. A race's racial stat bonus makes them good at some classes over others.

Depending on your players, this may well be a non-issue: if they're the sort either to go with the defaults that are offered (or, equally, deliberately play against type), then that should be fine. If nothing else, PCs are always exceptional.

It might be more of an issue if you have players who choose their race for pure power-gamer reasons... but in that case you've probably got less of an issue here than in the version that does have the racial mods, for the reasons the OP lays out.

 

[Lucas Yew]

Personally, I like the playtest's idea of 30 point buy, 3 points more than the official version. It's a flat 30, ending on a zero, and Pathfinder-wise, a happy middle point between the 15 and 20 PB options.

But alas, it's 27 in 5E. I think that the devs saw a potential 16 16 16 10 10 10 human too strong, or else...

 

[Hereticus]

I think he is more asking about whether or not taking the racial bonuses away and giving every character more to buy with.

That is correct.

I think you are going to chose a race that you want in the end for whatever reason. A race's racial stat bonus makes them good at some classes over others. This is why there are more High Elf Wizards than Wood Elf Wizards because they are naturally good at it. When you look at population averages this will be reflected so your games class/race combinations that might seem min/maxed are actually on par with what you would expect to find in the world. Would it be harder to find a High Elf Druid or a Wood Elf Druid? I don't see a reason to get rid of the racial stat bonuses unless it made sense in your world for every race have equal number of every class.

What I want to see for the player characters is more race/class diversity, such as a half orc wizard or a dwarf druid. I want the players to be the exceptions, and the NPCs to be the rule. Yeah, it will take some role playing and an interesting background.

How would you handle this for humans? They are seriously lacking in anything if they don't get the stat bonuses.

Instead of six +1s to stats, the human variant gets +1 to two stats plus a bonuses skill and a bonus feat (bottom of p31). This seems less than what other races get, so I would add the equivalent to another +1, such as a proficiency, an advantage to a proficiency (with conditions), a language, a stat save advantage, etc. Basically a third of a feat, such as one luck point for a halfling to make up for their +1 bonus for the sub-races.

 

[Hereticus]

As I player, I would want it by the book.

I have a Half-Gnoll Paladin...

Pardon the question, but which book is the half-gnoll in?

I like the concept, I played a gnoll ranger in pathfinder who of course was always hungry (read the quote in my signature line).

 

[Hereticus]

It might be more of an issue if you have players who choose their race for pure power-gamer reasons... but in that case you've probably got less of an issue here than in the version that does have the racial mods, for the reasons the OP lays out.

Exactly what I want to avoid, racial stereotypes picked for power gaming over role play. Most everyone does it to some extent, but I am trying to take away the need for one aspect of it.