D&D 5E The best solution for longswords

[Coroc]

Replace Two handed sword with longsword. (2d6 2h only)
Replace Longsword with bastard sword. (1d8/1d10 versatile)
Depending on Epoch replace Rogue / Elf proficiency in Longsword with arming sword / rapier (Arminng sword 1h 1d8)
That way you will get historically correct naming and not miss out anything


Your best approximisation to my PoV is 3)

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

All depends what you think the problem is I suppose

I believe that BookBarbarian was referring to the Versatile property of weapons not being used because they are already strong as single-handed but weak as two-handed because they lose the use of a shield, but don't compare well to dedicated two-handed weapons.

The longsword itself is excellent. Longsword = bastard sword.
• longsword, 1d8 slashing (versatile 1d10) + Strength

There is a need for a socalled knightly arming sword.
This is an ‘agile’, ‘cut and thrust’, sword.
It is the archetypal sword.
Call it ‘sword’.
• sword, 1d8 slashing or piercing + Strength (finesse Dexterity)

Note, the sword is statistically identical to the rapier, except the sword can alternate slash and pierce.

5e definition of a longsword already covers the arming sword, falchion, dao, many sabres, bastard sword, macahuitl, 'Viking sword' etc.
Some examples are optimised towards two-handed use, and some are built for mostly one-handed use, but 5e isn't really granular enough to pick out that level of distinction.
The 'arming sword' isn't heavy, but it still has appreciable weight, and requires strength of both shoulder and forearm to use with speed and control. It was also used two-handed fairly regularly in halfsword techniques when a bit of extra oomph was required and a shield wasn't used. - To me, that puts it squarely in '5e Longsword' territory.

While we are at it. Also add in katana.
• katana, 1d6 slashing (versatile 1d8) + Strength (finesse Dexterity)

Note, the katana is the only weapon so far that is both versatile and finesse.
Here, the knightly ‘sword’ is slightly better than the katana.
I feel it is ok to give the sword plot protection.
(Like giving lightsaber plot protection in a Star Wars game.)
But if someone wants to make the sword and katana equally good,
maybe give the katana a minor benefit for being razor sharp.

The 5e definitions of Finesse and Versatile don't really make sense together. The point about putting two hands on a weapon is to improve control and power though increased leverage. Finesse weapons do not require leverage since that is a function of strength.
If you want to have a finesse version of the katana, just give it the stats of the scimitar - which it already quite closely resembles physically.

Elf. Three solutions.
1. A Dexterity elf gets an ‘elegant’ swordfighting style that applies finesse to any longsword.
2. The finesse ‘sword’ now exists. This is actually the sword that the elf culture was celebrating.
3. Eliminate the race proficiency with longsword or any sword. Who cares really?

4. Leave as is. Elves get standard Longsword proficiency.
(I tend to swap the weapon proficiencies around anyway, since in Eberron, one of the major elven nations tend to emphasise scimitars and shortbows, and the other elven subrace; the drow go for blowguns, boomerangs, and long knives rather than the traditional elven weapons.)

A punch is about as ‘finesse’ as one can get − and it requires Strength.

I'd suggest almost the exact opposite: a punch is about the least Finesse (in 5e D&D terms at least) weapon around. Its effect is almost entirely dependent upon the pure force it delivers, even when it strikes the few well-guarded areas on the body that are more vulnerable.

 

[jasper]

Or you could just strikeout long sword from elves and rogues proficiency.

 

[CubicsRube]

Don’t take my answer too seriously, but Longsword simply need a feat.
There is feat for heavy weapon, polearm, shield, ranged weapon, crossbow but nothing for longsword.
Give me a feat and a horse and I will conquer this land!

I actually think a sword master feat would be a great idea. Its an iconic weapon that has endured for centuries.

I wonder what itd be like? I'll take a stab (pun intended!) at it:


-


Sword Master
You have mastered a range of techniques using the versatility of the longsword to your advantage.

You have become highly skilled in parrying and deflecring incoming blows.When wielding a longsword and you are not holding a shield, you may add +1 to your ac.

In offense you have trained to attack from many surprising angles. You may add +2 to your attack rolls with a long sword

Lastly if you grapple an enemy with your offhand, you may use your bonus action to smash them with the hilt of your sword. This is a 1d4 bludgeoning attack.

--


I was going to think up something more interesting, but its late, so meh. Any case adding accuracy and some defense to a longsword makes it more useable as the ac hit from not using a shield isnt as bad, and the extra accuracy makes the idea of using a 1d10 2 handed non power attack weapon different from other 2 handed weapons. Its like the accurate 2 hander. Lastly, grappling and halfswording/hilt smashes are historical fighting techniques. Seems like itd be nice to slot them in there.

 

[jaelis]

I believe that BookBarbarian was referring to the Versatile property of weapons not being used because they are already strong as single-handed but weak as two-handed because they lose the use of a shield, but don't compare well to dedicated two-handed weapons.

Well, I think that is really two problems.

First, it means that the versatile property is kind of useless, which is boring.

Second, it means there isn't an effective way to fight where you alternate between 1H and 2H wielding.

Myself, the first problem bugs me, but you can fix that by making versatile offer some other advantage. I like my feat because it addresses that.

The second problem doesn't bother me because it seems silly to fight with a weapon in one hand and leave your other hand free. But if this was something you wanted, it seems like the obvious fix is to invent a new fighting style for it. I don't feel up to that myself because I can't picture anything sensible that style would do.

 

[schnee]

Nah, in a campaign with proper environmental challenges, it's easy to see switching it up to keeping an open hand in many situations.

- Needing to carry something heavy for a while
- Needing to hold a torch
- Moving along treacherous terrain, improving balance and holding on to a railing or rope
- Needing to help less athletic characters across a barrier while still keeping a weapon ready
- Needing to provide a threat to a creature to allow a Rogue to get Sneak Attack while doing something else with the spare hand

The game isn't fiddly enough to force this stuff on you mechanically constantly, which I'm thankful for, but characters who role play their interaction with the environment will be doffing and donning a shield quite frequently. Having a weapon that's a bit better in those situations is nice.

 

[Coroc]

Well with the versatile Option at least you can make a longsword look more realistically for some smaller races. I do normally houserule that a longsword has to be used two handed by elves or dwarves and is to "heavy" for halflings or gnomes. Tbh several of the longer weapons are quite impractical to use by "short" People.

If you do not believe me try this: give a broom to a child 6 to 10 years old, or a small woman not more than 4.5 feet in height and let them swing the broom with
one and two Hands. Although not very heavy, you will notice that the momentum of the broom due to it's length will cause trouble to these wielders.
It is all about leverage, especially with one handed weapons. Even if you asume much stronger Fantasy dwarves / elves / halflings this will not alter the fact that a long weapon wielded by a short Person will cause much more counterforce on their arms due to momentum and therefore will not be their weapon of choice.

Depicting dwarves with axes and hammers is not only an archetype but it would be their weapon of choice due to pure mechanics and physics.

 

[Emmanuel Casavant]

Yeah Elves are strong

 

[77IM]

What If the longsword had Versatile (d10, finesse)? Meaning, when you wield it in two hands it does d10 damage and you can choose Dex or Str, but when you wield it in one hand it's only d8 and you must you Str.

1) It would give Dex-based characters a two-handed option (although not as good as what Str-based characters get).
2) It would give Dex-based characters a reason to use a longsword.
3) It would give someone other than halfling barbarians a reason to use a versatile weapon two-handed.
4) It kinda makes sense: the longsword is two heavy to finesse when you hold it in one hand, but with two hands on the blade, you have the leverage needed to strike precisely and draw-cut swiftly.
5) It enables some character concepts of yesteryear, notably the 4E Avenger class, which had a lot of Dex-based skills, but was typically depicted with a greatsword and used Wis for attack and damage (thus you could dump Str).
6) It would make the longsword special again, as it would be basically the only weapon with this level of versatility.

 

[jaelis]

- Needing to carry something heavy for a while
Sure but wouldn't you drop it when the fight starts?

- Needing to hold a torch
Light spell is a cantrip

- Moving along treacherous terrain, improving balance and holding on to a railing or rope
And you are fighting while doing this?

- Needing to help less athletic characters across a barrier while still keeping a weapon ready
You can still hold your 2H weapon in one hand and do this. Are you planning to take an OA in the middle of this effort?

- Needing to provide a threat to a creature to allow a Rogue to get Sneak Attack while doing something else with the spare hand
You don't need a weapon in hand to threaten, everyone has an unarmed strike.

But anyway I don't really object to any of these, they could happen and they are fun. But I don't think that will satisfy the people who want an actual fighting style that involves versatile weapons. I can't really imagine that any of these would be the sort of thing to make a player choose to fight two-handed with a longsword rather than a greatsword. ("You never know when I'll suddenly find myself hanging from a rope!") The are more like reasons a greatsword fighter should make sure to have a 1H weapon along for occasional use.