D&D 5E The Next Generation

[gyor]

I'm not a fan of Tolkiens novels, I find they move too slowly and tend to be too low fantasy. That being said I recognize the importance of his work on D&D and the same for the other older influences. That being same I believe we can find balance between old and new.

Some stuff I've been reading and watching Lost Girl (favourite new show), Once upon a time, Queen's Blade (an anime that clearly shares my contempt for approitate armour), Wheel of Time, Runelords, Last Airbender(the live action movie), Lost Gate. All of these and others could influence the the Next D&D along,side the traditional vancian, Conan, Tolkien, Mythological influences.

 

[Bedrockgames]

Opon reflection i have to say the OP's critique is built around something of a fantasy. The more I think about it the more i believe D&D has done a pretty good job of accomodating new trends in fantasy. It will always have a core identity that is unique, but just look at how the game has changedover the years. The multiple campaign settings of 2E were about as cutting edge as you could get (darksun is certainly not just a redo of GH). 3E also had some pretty wild stuff as well (i think it got pretty anime at times). But they kept the core plain enough that it could accomodate lots of flavor variations while also appealing to some old school sensibilities. I think with 4e you hadthe two pronged issue of them really playing with the core races andthe mechanics (to the point that many of us felt it didn't match our experience of D&D). But i don't think the situation painted by the OP is accurate at all (i havent even read a jack vance novel myself).

 

[Janaxstrus]

That's cool.

I'm going to do the same thing. Except I much prefer to keep to the spirit rather than the letter. Which means I'm going to "keep D&D like D&D" by mixing in whatever I think is cool at the time: new, old, incompatible, ill-advised, batsh*t insane, whatever.

And what you do in your game is fine by me. If you want to have robot monkeys firing chain guns at motorcycle riding hippos with 12 ft stone great swords, that is fine with me.

I just don't want to see that, personally, in the core game.

 

[Fifth Element]

What's the rule for when the clock stops?

When I started playing, usually.

If we think of game systems as technology, we can adapt the following:

1. Anything that is in the world when you’re born is normal and ordinary and is just a natural part of the way the world works.

2. Anything that's invented between when you’re fifteen and thirty-five is new and exciting and revolutionary and you can probably get a career in it.

3. Anything invented after you're thirty-five is against the natural order of things.

 

[Fifth Element]

In that case, I fully understood the point. I want the new game to be directed at me, not him. Was that not clear?

I was hoping it wasn't the case, because it's not a constructive comment in any way.

A: "D&D should be directed at me."

B: "No, D&D should be directed at me."

That's not a conversation, and neither comment is realistic or reasonable. The OP has some small point, I think, though the presentation gets an F. But really no one should expect that the new edition of the game will be directed at them and only them. Expecting them to direct the game at only one group of people is naive, and expecting that lone group to be the one to which you belong is doubly so.

 

[Bedrockgames]

When I started playing, usually.

If we think of game systems as technology, we can adapt the following:

1. Anything that is in the world when you’re born is normal and ordinary and is just a natural part of the way the world works.

2. Anything that's invented between when you’re fifteen and thirty-five is new and exciting and revolutionary and you can probably get a career in it.

3. Anything invented after you're thirty-five is against the natural order of things.

I really dont think this is the case with game mechanics. I try more and more new systems as I get olderl so new mechanics are never a problem for me. What is a problem for me is taking an established game and altering the core mechanics in a way that radically changes play and charact creation. I think people are making a faulty assumption that folks who don't like 4e just don't
Ike new or different mechanics. This is simply untrue. In the case of 4e, i dont like those mechanics in particular (even if it was not marketed as D&D) and I feel d&d didn't need that kind of overhaul.

 

[Incenjucar]

I think I freely admitted to being a grognard who doesn't want D&D to change to the latest fads.

I will freely admit to holding them hostage with my money.

Never said you were hiding it, I'm just pointing out why people are feeling like the older generation is a threat to their ability to enjoy the game and pass it on to their kids when they're the older generation.

That said, if you're going to compare anime to D&D, you should maybe consider looking at stuff that's closer to it, like Berserk or even Fairy Tail rather than extremely unrelated genres if you're going to make comments on it. Or better yet, you could actually say the specific things you don't like rather than making blanket statements that can be contested. If you don't like the art style of exaggerated equipment, that's a much more useful thing to say.

 

[Fifth Element]

I really dont think this is the case with game mechanics. I try more and more new systems as I get olderl so new mechanics are never a problem for me. What is a problem for me is taking an established game and altering the core mechanics in a way that radically changes play and charact creation.

We're not really talking about mechanics, but the next edition of D&D as a whole, taking everything about it together. I hesitated to post that Adams quote, because someone might take it too literally or too narrowly. It was more about a common human foible than anything specific.

 

[Bedrockgames]

We're not really talking about mechanics, but the next edition of D&D as a whole, taking everything about it together. I hesitated to post that Adams quote, because someone might take it too literally or too narrowly. It was more about a common human foible than anything specific.

Again, i don't think you can attribute the dislike of 4e to "fear of the new". Lots of us like new things plenty. It is just we genuinely disliked 4e.

 

[Doug McCrae]

This post is awesome in so many ways. I wish I could XP it, but at the moment am not allowed to.

Thank you, though I'm now wondering if the picture I painted of nostalgia-crazed codgers with their hands round the throat of a game that started out young and vibrant was a bit simplistic.

Mallus made a very good point about 3e/Pathfinder having a lot of influences that aren't present in previous editions. The 3e sorcerer is very X-Men-y imo, the first Pathfinder AP was heavily influenced by the movie, The Texas Chain Saw Massacre, Paizo uses anime-influenced art, and so forth. Though, admittedly the X-Men have been around since the 60s, the New X-Men since '75, and The Texas Chain Saw Massacre was '74. All could've been inspirations for early D&D, though they weren't. But the point is they are relatively new to D&D.

3e also has something of a very early D&D/West Coast/Arduin Grimoire vibe with its half-dragons, spiked chains and weird PrCs. That's what traditionalists are referring to when they compain about 3e being too anime, I think. That influence wasn't present in the core rules in 2e, and Gary doesn't much like it by the time of 1e because he's worried it breaks game balance.

In mechanical terms, 3e/Pathfinder is the edition of D&D closest to late 70s/early 80s systems like RuneQuest, Hero, GURPS (and RoleMaster?) Logical, simulationist systems. Its mechanics are a lot more radical (by D&D standards, 20-year old rules can't be genuinely radical) than its fluff and playstyle.

The Pathfinder/3e crowd is perhaps a third generation, largely in the 30-40 age range, who may well have left D&D in the 2e era and come back in 2000.

Then you've got guys like ExploderWizard and the Jester, who are, I think, in their 40s, have a strong old school sensibility, run 4e, don't seem to like it and come on here to bitch about it. Why are they running 4e? I dunno. Maybe they find it easier to get players for the current edition.