D&D 5E The Problem with Constitution

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[DEFCON 1]

I as a DM help new players make new characters. I see the same "choice" being made time and time again. As someone interested in game design, that's the sign of a feature that needs to be addressed.

Its interesting, because I so rarely see the tough feat selected, yet I see 80% 14s in Con.

Ability scores are representative of a character. They help determine what challenges a character will be successful at, and often which they'll try to avoid. If the random numbers scribbled on a paper don't matter, then why are you using a rule system to adjudicate your roleplaying?

The numbers DON'T matter when it comes to the roleplay. But you do need them for the game part.

The question then becomes how important is the game part to the entire experience? I mean if ALL you care about is the game part then yeah, you're going to get all wiggly about wanting hundreds of different choices for game rules while also wanting them to be almost completely balanced with each other. But that just means I turn your hyperbolic question back onto you-- if numbers are all that matter, why are you using a rule system that incorporates all that roleplaying?

Of course... the answer in both our cases is that we want BOTH-- game mechanics *and* roleplaying. Which is why throwing out the old overused chestnut of "Well why even USE rules for your roleplaying then?" is so cliched and unnecessary. You know as well as I do why a roleplaying game uses both. But my point is that unless you are only completely focused on the numbers of the game, the roleplaying will change things and make things different much more easily and often than a couple different numbers on the character sheet.

And as far as selecting the Tough feat is concerned... if all that does is produce ostensibly just a higher number of hit points just like a higher CON score does... what difference does it make how the player gets there? Why bother with the Tough feat? Is there any appreciable character difference between a PC with CON 10 and Tough versus a PC with CON 14? Not from where I'm sitting there isn't. And that becomes doubly the case while we're actually playing and all I see is the player just knocking off HP from some nebulous pool.

 

[Quartz]

Constitution is an entirely passive ability score.

This is not entirely correct. Constitution works across all three pillars.

The combat pillar is obvious and indeed purely defensive. Similarly in the exploration pillar.

But the social pillar is not obvious. There are drinking & eating contests and the like. But you can use it for Intimidation (e.g. drinking more shots of whisky than the other guy or downing a yard glass more quickly), Persuasion / seduction (think of a himbo / gym rat) - someone who looks good but has the personality of an ant.

 

[Sadras]

I think that you may be exaggerating how much of a problem it would be.

I'm not saying it could not be done, but Constitution has a deep use in the game. You could roll much into STR, question is would you really want to.

Hit Points
Concentration
Suffocating
Forced March
Chase
Extreme Cold and Heat
Dehydration checks
Affects days permitted to go absent of Food
Swimming (after an hour)
Diseases
Poisons
Life Drain
Healing Surges (Optional Rule)
Massive Damage (Optional Rule)

 

[Aldarc]

I'm not saying it could not be done, but Constitution has a deep use in the game. You could roll much into STR, question is would you really want to.

Hit Points
Concentration
Suffocating
Forced March
Chase
Extreme Cold and Heat
Dehydration checks
Affects days permitted to go absent of Food
Swimming (after an hour)
Diseases
Poisons
Life Drain
Healing Surges (Optional Rule)
Massive Damage (Optional Rule)

Sure. Why not? If you are worried about the name, then rename the attribute Might, Brawn, or Physique, and you cover much the same ground.

 

[Sadras]

Sure. Why not? If you are worried about the name, then rename the attribute Might, Brawn, or Physique, and you cover much the same ground.

Reiterating what I posted earlier, if you did that, some thought would have to be given about point buy and ASI given 1 less ability. And then there is the monster issue, do you or don't you carry through the change.

 

[Aldarc]

Reiterating what I posted earlier, if you did that, some thought would have to be given about point buy and ASI given 1 less ability. And then there is the monster issue, do you or don't you carry through the change.

Oh, shitake mushrooms. I would have to give thought about some further things? I had not planned on that possibility of before. Curses! I am defeated!

At this point, I am surprised you haven't pulled out, "But think of the children!"

 

[5ekyu]

LOL something we agree on! The idea of Warlocks going to Wisdom is an interesting idea...

Another option with Con concerning hit points I have experimented in the past with 1E/2E was the Con mod adds to hit points for the level, but you cannot exceed the maximum for your hit die type. So, a Fighter with +3 Con bonus will have 4-10 hit points per level, as any result of 7 or more on the d10 is treated as 10.

Yeah, to me Wis for the arcanists who harnesses thrir powers from some otherworldly creature being the same control stat as the diviners who fo something at least a bit similar was a no-brainer.

 

[Sadras]

Oh, shitake mushrooms. I would have to give thought about some further things? I had not planned on that possibility of before. Curses! I am defeated!

At this point, I am surprised you haven't pulled out, "But think of the children!"

Personal opinion being if the issue with Constitution is Hit Points there is no reason to throw out the whole damned ability. Have the modifiers signify something else, like the number of Healing Surge use per day (aka Second Wind), Monsters won't have Second Wind so their hp bonus are built in.

 

[mortwatcher]

I mean sure, con is not the flashiest of stats
but not failing those con save vs paralysis/concentration is pretty significant
and since most classes can get away with only 1 primary stat, con is the natural can't go wrong stat