The Videogame comparison

[Kordeth]

Now am I wrong in thinking that PCs might run up against villains with this ability?

Yes. Because you are the DM, and you have the power to never ever ever create a villain with this ability if it bothers you.

 

[Fanaelialae]

Now am I wrong in thinking that PCs might run up against villains with this ability?

I think so.

As I stated in my previous post, I don't recall any monsters having CAGI-like powers. The only way I know of granting a monster that ability would be to put a class template on it and then purposefully give it CAGI, or one of the few powers like it.

 

[LostSoul]

Your option #3 is fabulous if the player of the wizard WANTS that to happen. The problem is that this choice is removed from the player -

This is the same issue as having Intimidate or Diplomacy work on a PC. It's an old issue and comes down to a matter of taste.

I don't see how it matters if the mechanic used is Fortune (rolling dice) or Karma (spend this resource, this thing happens).

The short answer is - if you don't like using Intimidate to make Bloodied PCs surrender, don't have NPCs use it on PCs. The same goes for Come and Get It; if you don't want the mechanics determining such things, don't have NPCs use it.

 

[inati]

This is hardly the realm of PvP when the DM can just apply a Fighter Template (DMG 183) to the Monster...

 

[phloog]

4E is decidedly not a PvP system, so I see this point as being partly moot. I can't think of any monsters that can move you around using CAGI-like powers.

In any case, if CAGI is such a sore point, it's well within the DM's right to rule that it isn't allowed in his game. (SNIP)

Maybe in the fog of battle the wizard stumbles closer to the fighter than he actually intended. Or maybe the fighter made a rude comment about the wizard's mother that unhinged him for a second. Whatever.
.

Hopefully my last post made it clearer that I'm not talking pvp, but any power that controls a PC without consideration of stats or a roll.

No monsters use it? I'll accept that without citation, but I'm wondering then (confessing some ignorance of 4E here) - - do the PCs never fight enemies generated using the standard character generation rules? I've been assuming that I can create a villain or two with the normal rules, which would mean they could encounter a baddie with CAGI.

My problem with the rude comment I've addressed..the stumbling in the fog of war was one I toyed with, but the RANGE of CAGI louses that up for me...in the craziness of battle you happen to stumble randomly ten feet directly toward this fighter...and by the way since it's a burst - - in the craziness of battle you and all your friends stumble randomly directly toward this fighter...this becomes the 'gravity well'. And any of these 'you aren't where you really thought you were' abstractions would be less painful if there weren't so much focus on distance/grid/ranges in 4E for so many powers/effects.

 

[phloog]

I think so.

As I stated in my previous post, I don't recall any monsters having CAGI-like powers. The only way I know of granting a monster that ability would be to put a class template on it and then purposefully give it CAGI, or one of the few powers like it.

Thanks...this makes sense. I just worried that if this one Exploded out at me from the page with just my first flip through the book, there would be other powers equally bad, or there would be multiple instances where this power was seen.

I think that for me, should I again attempt to run 4e, I will house rule (and warn all players in advance, of course) that I will tend to Rule 0 major bad guys with high willpower or similar stats as immune to CAGI, or somehow resistant (roll vs Will, maybe)...in return for this slight nerfing of this power, I will not employ it against any PC unless I provide a similar attack roll.

I fear I've hijacked the thread...sorry....is CAGI the only power that forces so much movement without an attack?

 

[Fanaelialae]

is CAGI the only power that forces so much movement without an attack?

No, but there aren't many. The only other one that I can think of off the top of my head is the level 22 Warlord power Own the Battlefield.

 

[Kordeth]

This is hardly the realm of PvP when the DM can just apply a Fighter Template (DMG 183) to the Monster...

Nothing in the fighter template requires you to give the monster Come And Get It. If you have a problem with CAGI being used on PCs, don't give it to mmonsters with the fighter template.

No monsters use it? I'll accept that without citation, but I'm wondering then (confessing some ignorance of 4E here) - - do the PCs never fight enemies generated using the standard character generation rules? I've been assuming that I can create a villain or two with the normal rules, which would mean they could encounter a baddie with CAGI.

Point one: NPC villains in 4E are not created using the PC creation rules. See pp. 186-188 of the DMG.

Point two: Even if they were, the PCs can only encounter a baddie with CAGI if you design a baddie and choose to give him CAGI. If you have a problem with this power being used on PCs, don't give it to the baddies. It really is that simple.

 

[Gort]

Just as an aside, I really hate Come and Get It but do not think it's really relevant to this thread. It's a crap power, we've had those in all editions of D&D. It doesn't indicate videogame-ness or otherwise.

 

[Runestar]

My group considered the Improved Disarm/ Trip/ etc line of feats to be unrealistic in 3.x. We didn't ban those feats, players just policed themselves and didn't overuse them.

Funny, if anything, those abilities were way underutilized in my games. Disarm and tripping tend to be rather inefficient against the enemies, due to the fact that the majority of the monsters in the MM don't use (or don't rely on) weapons, and their size/str superiority typically means that it is much easier for them to trip/disarm/sunder the PCs, rather than the other way around.