Thief Tank?

[Player1975]

Hello,

I like playing characters that are not typical roles. In this instance a thief tank 5th edition. Can anyone help me get a points build optimized thief tank? What race? Feats? Background? Would be really awesome. Since the players in my group said a thief cant play a tank.

Phatz

 

[mellored]

Sentinel, medium armored (or Multiclass), and 20 con. You going to loose out on Dex for accuracy, and thus damage, but you'll be tough and still have the strongest opportunity attack.

Gnome or dwarf are the toughest races. You can also sneak attack with Str if needed, such as if you choose heavy armor.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

Are we talking thief thief, or are you open to any rogue? How about multiclass options?

If you're looking explicitly for a thief and not e.g. an Arcane Trickster, I'd kind of suggest you take a look at a High Elven Thief with the Booming Blade cantrip. Booming Blade + Cunning Action (disengage and back up 10') will do a lot of damage while imposing control on enemies. One fairly unique ability that a rogue has is an extremely damaging opportunity attack, which is good for tanks; so you could choose to Dodge for your action to become tankier, while relying on your opportunity attack to prevent enemies from simply bypassing you. In order for this to work you need a way to ensure you get a Sneak Attack damage on your opportunity attack (which is why I asked about other rogue options, since a Swashbuckler can do this pretty reliably), which could be a wizard's Owl familiar Helping you or Faerie Fire from the bard, etc.

At 5th level you'll get Uncanny Dodge, which will help quite a bit. Until then I think you'll be on the fragile side for a tank and will have to Dodge a lot or rely on Shield of Faith + healing from the cleric.

 

[bid]

Hello,

I like playing characters that are not typical roles. In this instance a thief tank 5th edition. Can anyone help me get a points build optimized thief tank? What race? Feats? Background? Would be really awesome. Since the players in my group said a thief cant play a tank.

Phatz

MC mountain dwarf barbarian 16 14 16 8 12 10 with sentinel.
- barbarian 2 = reckless attack (sneak attack always on)
- barbarian 3 = wolf totem to help your melee friends (or elk to move around)
- barbarian 5 = extra attack
- swashbuckler 3 = move around w/o OA + easier sneak attack
- swashbuckler 5 = half damage on reaction
- swashbuckler 9 = taunt (+8 with expertise in persuasion)
Feats: shield master, sentinel, Str18, Con20.

Something like totem 5 / swashbuckler 5 gives you 84hp, AC19 (2 attacks) or AC17 (3 attacks). You can keep 3 enemy occupied (panache, shove, sentinel) at level 14.


Sadly, BB is in competition with uncanny dodge, rage and both bonus actions (TWF or shove). You'd have to adapt the build for it.

 

[Herobizkit]

• Mountain Dwarf for medium armor.
• Con as high as you can muster and it becomes your stat priority.
• Dex at 14 (Max Dex bonus in Med armor is +2).
• I think [MENTION=6801270]bid[/MENTION] has it right: 16 14 16 8 12 10
• Tough feat at level 4, maybe? Assuming max HP, you'd be at [d8+3]*4 + 8 = 52 HP (vs. 52 of a Fighter's HP with an equal Con and no Tough feat).

You'd be a Thug with your two-handed Axe and you'd kind of tank in reverse - instead of making enemies stick to you, you'd be using your extra move to stick to them. Not really a traditional Tank, but that's what you wanted, right?

 

[UngeheuerLich]

I will add expertise on athletics and grapple your foe. That will ensure they can't get out of your reach. I second mountain dwarf. Two handed axe won't work.

So:
Str 14+2
Dex 14
Con 14+2
Int 8
Wis 12
Cha 8.

Thief subclass for fast hands using ball bearings and flasks of oil to make it slippery around you.

Weapon is the short sword or maybe even two. Alternately a rapier although it looks terrible on a dwarf.

Arcane trickster may also work to get access to enlarge spell making you able to grab bigger creatures. The occassional shield spell should allow you to hold your own.

You should not need the tough feat since you have ways to really disable your enemies by grabbing them and bringing them down or you can use your reaction to halve the damage against you.

So to sum it up: at level 1: AC 16, attack bonus of +5 1d6+3 +1d6 damage.
I guess at level 1 it is hard to tank, but even the fighter has a hard time doing so. Level 6. and you should be ok.
A single level of fighter or barbarian later will increase your staying power by a larger margin, because you now can use shields and have either a fighting style (defense or protection) and second wind or rage.

 

[Kithas]

Yes, very easily.
Rogue actually has two of the best tanking abilities in the game; Uncanny Dodge, and Evasion.
Basically you should focus on your Con and your Dex, Stout Halfling would be a great race for this. Personally I would multiclass into fighter for shield proficiency, and the Defensive style, but that is totally up to you. Using a Rapier and a shield with Scale your AC starts at 18 (13+2(dex)+1(defensive)+2(shield) which is definitely respectable and can easily grow with you. Max out your Con first and get the Tough feat after that, Medium Armor Master will be helpful once you boost your dex past 14. With a 14-16 dex you will be fine on hitting people and since you are in melee getting sneak attack shouldn't be hard so your damage output will be just fine. Sentinel is a great feat for this build as well, remember you can Sneak attack on your reaction!

My recommendation would be to go level 1 Fighter( so you can start with a shield and rapier) then max out rogue. This will hurt your skills so try to make sure that you are ok with that. If you are starting past level 1, start as a rogue and pick up your needed equipment by using the buying option for starting equipment. That way you get all the skills you want and still have the proficiencies you need.


I personally love rogue tanks, they hit hard and are really hard to drop. They also have very good out-of-combat utility as well. Have fun!




Edit; I don't mean to be rude but some of the suggestions above are just bad. Using a great-axe? Focusing on Strength? Dwarves? Protection FS? None of that meshes well with a rogue. You need a finesse weapon to sneak attack, you have no need for a high str even if you want to grapple because of expertise. Dipping fighter is much better than being a mountain dwarf, the +2 con is nice but the +2 str is a complete waste. Protection is already a sub-par fighting style and when you want to be using your reaction for uncanny dodge or sentinel it is even worse.
Again I am not meaning to insult the above posters, usually their advice is rather good. I am honestly surprised by some of the responses.

 

[bid]

Basically you should focus on your Con and your Dex, Stout Halfling would be a great race for this. Personally I would multiclass into fighter for shield proficiency, and the Defensive style, but that is totally up to you. Using a Rapier and a shield with Scale your AC starts at 18 (13+2(dex)+1(defensive)+2(shield) which is definitely respectable and can easily grow with you. Max out your Con first and get the Tough feat after that, Medium Armor Master will be helpful once you boost your dex past 14.

If you take the more classic fighter path, that's about the best. Except you need something to stop them from bypassing you, either by force or by fear.

Swashbuckler is best for tank with 8 16 16 8 10 14 for level 9 panache taunt and +6 initiative. I also consider you need fighter 5 to replace TWF since you have a shield and you really want your SA every turn.

I would grab sentinel first and delay MAM after Con. If someone has inspiring leader, Con can wait. Along with Dex20, that should cover your 6-7 ASI (fighter 8 / rogue 12).

 

[Kithas]

If you take the more classic fighter path, that's about the best. Except you need something to stop them from bypassing you, either by force or by fear.

Swashbuckler is best for tank with 8 16 16 8 10 14 for level 9 panache taunt and +6 initiative. I also consider you need fighter 5 to replace TWF since you have a shield and you really want your SA every turn.

I would grab sentinel first and delay MAM after Con. If someone has inspiring leader, Con can wait. Along with Dex20, that should cover your 6-7 ASI (fighter 8 / rogue 12).

You don't need to replace sneak attack. Just use a finesse weapon and a shield, you still get sneak. Swash and Thief are pretty close honestly, swash may be a tad better in combat but thief is better outside combat.
Your ways to stop them bypassing you;
1. Sneak attack. You still hit super hard so they really can't just ignore you.
2. Sentinel + Sneak attack. If they hit anyone near you they get double sneak attacked, multiple of these and theyre dead.

EDIT; It seems I misread your post. You said to replace twf not to replace sneak. I agree that it is important to get your damage in but going 5 into fighter doesn't seem like time well spent :/ it is an option.

 

[DDDMEMAYBE]

Let me try and add some cool things a Tanky Rogue could do:

-Use ready actions while stealthed to intercept enemies trying to engage your party members, not too unlike a skilled bodygaurd of a high ranking persons.

-You are spectacular at opening pathways for your team during the heat of battle. Pick that lock while goblins are bashing at you, you can do it!!

-Better at soaking damage from traps when you fail to disarm them.

-Still can hit and do decent damage because we in 5e. Superb damage if you get some Sneak attack dice actually.

I would say put your stat points in this order: con(14-16+), dex(you want 14; with a breastplate as armor so you don't hamper stealth), int(no less than 12 for those good skill points), wisdom(perception), and strength/charisma are last.

Ps. Use nets; and go for sleight of handing enemies' weapons off of their selves if you encounter them before they see you. In the worst case scenario you have the tank at their front-line at the opening of combat.