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D&D 5E This is a directory of posters who think the sorcerer needs fixing

Gradine

The Elephant in the Room (she/her)
We also need to address the flavor problem. See, I actually think 5e's Sorcerer is the best the class has ever been, flavor-wise. WotC just sucked at selling it. 5e has the same origin for the big three arcane classes as 4e: wizards are book nerds, warlocks take the quick and easy route to power, and sorcerers are born magical. I like the bloodline origin idea, the story behind it, the fact that it doesn't need to be actually literal heredity, but it's a solid idea for natural born magical talent. The actual archetype class features they created are either dull or interesting but hard to track. The UA archetypes are interesting in some ways and much closer in line to the type of bloodlines I wish they would have added in the first place. Bloodline-specific spells to add to your spells known for every archetype would go a long way towards fixing the spells known vs. spells prepared imbalance.

I'm going to both defend metamagic as a Sorcerer function, despite the fact that WotC didn't sell it well. The problem isn't the effects of metamagic; these should absolutely be the domain of the Sorcerer, for reasons I'll explain shortly. The problem is the historical baggage associated with metamagic. See, metamagic started life in 3rd edition as feats, which were a thing Wizards got more of than Sorcerers. Metamagic feats weren't necessarily written to be more scientific than normal spell-casting, but they were easier to use for preparation casters than spontaneous casting (who had to spend a full round to use the feat), because remember that WotC Monte reasons. Because of this metamagic feats were mostly associated with preparation casters (clerics probably moreso than wizards, mostly because of the supreme cheesiness that was divine metamagic).

But here's why metamagic belongs with the Sorcerer. Let's talk about artists and architects. Both of these professions are capable of drawing pictures of buildings. Architecture has rules, and specific tools to use. Ask fifty architects to draw up a specific building, and provided they are all similarly competent you will get fifty nearly identical floorplans. Get fifty artists together and ask them the same thing, and you'll get fifty completely different drawings. What's more, pick just one architect and one artist and ask them to draw fifty drawings of the house, one drawing each day for fifty days. The architect will again draft fifty nearly-identical (if not entirely identical) floorplans. The artist's drawings will probably all be similar, but you'll see a lot more variation drawing to drawing.

The obvious metaphor here is that wizards are architects and sorcerers are artists, and that's a metaphor that I don't think WotC leans on enough. They're too focused on the origin piece (Sorcs and their bloodlines; Wizards and their spellbooks) that they haven't created a strong enough picture regarding the different ways these two classes do magic. Yet this is entirely the crux of why Sorcerers have metamagic. So you've got something like Sculpt Spell, which seems like this precise application of spell power that seems suited to the Wizard, but the point is that the Wizard is meant to be this rigid, by-the-book caster, while the Sorcerer is always tweaking, experimenting, casting from insight and instinct. Their Fireball is always going to look a little different; maybe they make it a little bigger, fly a little farther, burn a little hotter. Maybe they try casting it without speaking, or moving. And yeah, maybe they try reshaping it so it has a few blind-spots here or there. I love that meta-magic is the domain of the Sorcerer in this edition. That, and the way that Sorcery points interact with Spell Slots, sells me as the Sorcerer as the magical artist of 5th edition.

Of course, that takes away the "meta-magic is scientific" aspect from 3.5 that other folks might have preferred. But it was the one mechanical concession made to the Sorcerer that strengthens it as a class without, I feel, weakening Wizards conceptually much at all.

Overall, then, the flavor problem with the Sorcerer is that it suffers from twin concepts: spell-casting as bloodline and spell-casting as artistry, and that what we delivered leaned too heavily on the former at the expense of the latter, creating mechanics that fit the spell-casting as artistry mold perfectly but, lacking that strong flavor, feels only like more book-keeping, from a mechanical perspective, then the class that casts spells from a freaking book.
 

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Gradine

The Elephant in the Room (she/her)
Part Three: Fixing the Sorcerer

Before I talk about how I would fix the Sorcerer, there's one other concept I want to discuss regarding Sorcerers. We've talked about Sorcerer as bloodline and Sorcerer as artist, which are the two concepts that the Sorcerer's archetype and sorcery point (metamagic & spell slots) mechanics lend themselves to quite well, for the most part. The archetypes have been mostly underwhelming but do a good enough job, I think at this point, that they aren't worth tweaking. And I think once one understands the Sorcerer as artist flavor, the mechanics associated with sorcery points make a great deal of sense, so that concept is fine. But there's a third concept too, one supported by the limited spells known mechanic. This is what has been called the "Sorcerers as X-Men" concept. This is the idea that because Sorcerers have so few spells known, they should be learning spells that stick to a specific theme, like a mutant from the X-men comics. I've actually kicked around the idea of building an "Aberrant Dragonmark" Sorcerer archetype for 5e Eberron for exactly that reason. The problem here isn't even the extremely small number of spells the Sorcerer gets to learn over their career.

The problem is their spell list.

For any given "theme" you might want to assign to your Sorcerer, there's going to at least be a handful of spells that would perfectly fit your theme that you don't have access to, because WotC Mearls reasons. There's seriously no rhyme or reason to the spells the Wizard gets that the Sorcerer doesn't. Sorcs get plenty of utility spells, just not all of them. And while they're supposed to be "blasters" there's some attack spells Sorcs don't get either.

So here's how I would fix the Sorcerer, as a base class:

  • Increase spell slots per day by 1 across the board. Let Sorcerers benefit from extra spells AND metamagic, rather than having to choose one or the other.
  • Broaden the spell list to include all Wizard spells AT THE LEAST.
  • A mechanic to learn spells from other lists. This makes more sense for the Sorcerer than for the Bard, to be honest. If the Sorcerer is going to be relegated to sticking to a theme, let them at least stick to it.
  • More metamagic. More interesting and more WEIRD. Change damage types. Cast Self-only spells on others. Transfer concentration. I don't know; but this is the Sorcerer's true defining trait and niche, it should be extremely creative.

I wouldn't want to tweak specific archetypes, but if I were to build a specific archetype around a signature ability, it would be the ability to cast spells to mimic the effects of other spells not on your spells known list. I wouldn't know how to build it seriously without hilariously breaking the game, but I have this image in my head of a Sorcerer using a Burning Hands spell as a limited short-range jetpack (an instantaneous Jump) and I want to make that a reality.
 

Gadget

Adventurer
Not much to add, but I would say first and foremost I would allow Sorcerers quicker and wider access to meta-magic, one of the key features of the class. Maybe even given them all the meta-magic options when they first get the feature; they still have to pay Sorcery Points to use them, so I don't think it would be a tremendous power up, just more desperately needed flexibility and flavor.
 

MoonSong

Rules-lawyering drama queen but not a munchkin
[MENTION=57112]Gradine[/MENTION] I like your analysis. Only one thing, it wasn't Monte Cook's fault the sorcerer fared so bad in 3e and 3.x. The name you are looking for is Skipp Williams. In fact I think that Monte could have been a good sorcerer advocate in the design team. Which is something I think is the problem or the source of the problems of the sorcerer in th8s edition. Nobody in the design team seems to really get sorcerers, and they wasted valuable time to at least get meaningful feedback on them by doing their Mage shenanigans during the playtest.
 

Thurmas

Explorer
I think a couple simple changes could be made to make the Sorcerer more balanced and more unique.

Spells Known: You learn one spell known per level, plus additional spells known equal to your Charisma modifier (minimum 1). So at level 20, 20+Cha mod spells known. It makes no sense to me that having a more powerful spell casting stat wouldn't actually make you more powerful in this regard. I'm ok with the Sorcerer not having access to all the spells of the Wizard. Some it makes sense to not access. But they should also have some unique sorcerer only spells, as well as access to some spells that are only on the druid or cleric list that the Wizard doesn't have.

Sorcery Points: 2 options here. Either 2 points per sorcerer level, regained on long rest, -or- 1 point per level, regained on short rest. This is really the entire thing that makes sorcerers unique. Allow them to do it more often.

Metamagic: The biggest problem I see with metamagic is it is so front loaded. You take the two best options at level 2. After that, everything else is inferior or you would have taken it earlier. You also don't know enough of them. Metamagic should follow the Warlock Invocation format. First, increase the number. 2 at level 2, then add another one every few levels. Secondly, put a level requirement on some of them. Make it exciting to hit level 6 and gain access to new metamagics that weren't available before. Make the new ones scale appropriately in power as a result.

It really wouldn't take much to make the Sorcerer balanced and more exciting to play. I'd be happy with a Revised Sorcerer similar to the Revised Ranger. If and whenever a 5.5 comes out, hopefully it will be better.
 

Gradine

The Elephant in the Room (she/her)
[MENTION=57112]Gradine[/MENTION] I like your analysis. Only one thing, it wasn't Monte Cook's fault the sorcerer fared so bad in 3e and 3.x. The name you are looking for is Skipp Williams. In fact I think that Monte could have been a good sorcerer advocate in the design team. Which is something I think is the problem or the source of the problems of the sorcerer in th8s edition. Nobody in the design team seems to really get sorcerers, and they wasted valuable time to at least get meaningful feedback on them by doing their Mage shenanigans during the playtest.

Yeah, I was mostly making a joke about how contentious the reasons for "why" the Sorcerer is inferior to Wizard tend to be, hence the repeated strikethroughs. I know Monte Cooke is the usual scapegoat for such things.

I missed out on the playtest, but I'd be interested in finding out what they were originally intending to do with the Sorcerer.

tl;dr of my three long posts, but I generally quite like the Sorcerer, in concept particularly but even in execution for the most part. Hence why my suggestions for fix are fairly minimal and focused on the main class chassis and not on the archetypes.
 

I would make an small addition to the rules.

Blood link
When the sorcerer make contact with a new being, location or effect strongly in line with its blood heritage, the DM may allow him to know an additional spell from the sorcerer spell list.
This feature should not be allowed more than once per level.
 

I would focus on improving the Sorcerer without actually changing what is in the PHB. This, in other words, means through additions rather than modifications. For example:

- a feat that grants extra spells known (also available to other classes)

- a feat that grants extra metamagic abilities (not available to other classes)

- a feat that increases spell points and grants additional ways to use them

- new and slightly stronger Sorcerer archetypes

- new Sorcerer-only spells which are more versatile than average

That's a workable way to do it, but the feats need to be very powerful. Basically, you need to be getting as much out of the feat as you normally would out of a feat plus it needs to be fixing sorcerer. If we consider that a sorcerer is 1 feat-worth weaker than other classes, then this feat needs to be worth 2 feats, etc. Otherwise it is a feat tax and doesn't fix the problem.

In order to do that, you either need to make it a sorcerer only feat (compare to the Svirfneblin only feat), or make it so that only the sorcerer can benefit from the extra elements of it that go beyond what a feat can normally do.
 

Mephista

Adventurer
5e has the same origin for the big three arcane classes as 4e: wizards are book nerds, warlocks take the quick and easy route to power, and sorcerers are born magical.
Except sorcerer origins aren't so hard cut - you can get them from being chosen by a god (favored soul), or dipped in a magical pool, or touched by a demon. Just sayin' its not all being born to magic.
 

Gradine

The Elephant in the Room (she/her)
Except sorcerer origins aren't so hard cut - you can get them from being chosen by a god (favored soul), or dipped in a magical pool, or touched by a demon. Just sayin' its not all being born to magic.

I thought I had mentioned it in one of those posts, maybe I cut it during one of my edits, but I recognize that the 5e "bloodline" doesn't necessarily have to be necessarily a literal heredity, but is still something that's core to your being. All those examples and more are what I love about the flavor of the Sorcerer.
 

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