(Totally-OT) I really need some advice... bad!
Pillars of Hercules
First Post
Hmmm
I think Piratecat was gently hinting that this post might be, err, strangely resistant to any attacks other than acid or fire.
If it is a troll, bravo - well executed!
If not, I agree with the poster that counseled letting things be. If you truly love Ann and respect Morgan, you won't interfere in their relationship. If you and Ann are meant to be, she and Morgan won't last and you can make your move once they've broken up. Less hard feelings all around.
I think Piratecat was gently hinting that this post might be, err, strangely resistant to any attacks other than acid or fire.
If it is a troll, bravo - well executed!
If not, I agree with the poster that counseled letting things be. If you truly love Ann and respect Morgan, you won't interfere in their relationship. If you and Ann are meant to be, she and Morgan won't last and you can make your move once they've broken up. Less hard feelings all around.
Point 1: Tanager is wise. Tanager is all-knowing. Listen to Tanager. Be a good person and do the right thing. Feeling good about yourself and knowing that you did what's right is more important than "getting the girl and living happily ever after (tm)."
Point 2: Don't trust the vast majority of advice you get over the internet, especially when related to anything vaguely important to you, as it's often given by someone who does much more talking than knowing. I mean this generally, and not directed toward anything in this thread.
Point 3: This post itself is not exempt from point 2 and is indeed self depricating.
(tm) Getting the girl and living happily ever after is a registered trademark of the Disney Corporation. In all other situations caveat emptor.
Point 2: Don't trust the vast majority of advice you get over the internet, especially when related to anything vaguely important to you, as it's often given by someone who does much more talking than knowing. I mean this generally, and not directed toward anything in this thread.
Point 3: This post itself is not exempt from point 2 and is indeed self depricating.
(tm) Getting the girl and living happily ever after is a registered trademark of the Disney Corporation. In all other situations caveat emptor.
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Been there, done that, on all 3 sides before learning my lesson.
Watched 2 other friends of mine who seemed to specialize in getting into exactly this sort of relation, i.e. they never, ever asked a single, unattached girl out but always fell head over heels for the girl a friend was dating. Seen them do it a half dozen times each.
Never works. EVER.
All 3 friendship will be busted up. As has been posted, how would you feel about a guy doing this to you if you were in Morgan's shoes? Worst case scenario, Morgan hates you, Ann gets creeped out or uncomfortable with you telling her that and stops hanging around or stops being a close friend, and they stick together. Same situation as you have now, plus you've lost 2 good friends. Assuming that it doesn't change your relationship with Ann, what if she doesn't return your feelings? What then? And if she does leave Morgan to date you, guess what? She'll leave you for someone else eventually who comes along and does the same thing you are contemplating when your relationship to her starts to get strained and no longer new. It's the old problem with marrying someone who cheats on their spouse with you, what makes you think they won't do the same thing to you?
And the most telling thing of all is that you "can't think of anything except her and being with her" That ain't love, that's an infatuation, and it will begin to fade as soon as she's not the unobtainable, desirable object she appears to be now. Have felt that exact same feeling several times. Then I met my wife of 9 years now, and experienced love, and it ain't that kind of feeling
Don't do it
Blech, can't believe all that came spewing out... think I'll go invent an improved ranger now so I can feel less sensitive and elfy
Watched 2 other friends of mine who seemed to specialize in getting into exactly this sort of relation, i.e. they never, ever asked a single, unattached girl out but always fell head over heels for the girl a friend was dating. Seen them do it a half dozen times each.
Never works. EVER.
All 3 friendship will be busted up. As has been posted, how would you feel about a guy doing this to you if you were in Morgan's shoes? Worst case scenario, Morgan hates you, Ann gets creeped out or uncomfortable with you telling her that and stops hanging around or stops being a close friend, and they stick together. Same situation as you have now, plus you've lost 2 good friends. Assuming that it doesn't change your relationship with Ann, what if she doesn't return your feelings? What then? And if she does leave Morgan to date you, guess what? She'll leave you for someone else eventually who comes along and does the same thing you are contemplating when your relationship to her starts to get strained and no longer new. It's the old problem with marrying someone who cheats on their spouse with you, what makes you think they won't do the same thing to you?
And the most telling thing of all is that you "can't think of anything except her and being with her" That ain't love, that's an infatuation, and it will begin to fade as soon as she's not the unobtainable, desirable object she appears to be now. Have felt that exact same feeling several times. Then I met my wife of 9 years now, and experienced love, and it ain't that kind of feeling
Don't do it
Blech, can't believe all that came spewing out... think I'll go invent an improved ranger now so I can feel less sensitive and elfy
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Chun-tzu
First Post
Paul_Klein said:
Early 20's tends to be a crazy time in many people's lives with regard to relationships.
This is part of your problem. To me, this sounds like infatuation. Now, that's not necessarily a bad thing, and I've been infatuated with many girls myself. The thing is, you're probably not seeing her clearly for who she is. What you're seeing is what you want her to be. And that is a very important distinction because you have no way of knowing whether or not she would ever choose to be that person.
Of course she's occasionally frustrated with him. That's the nature of relationships. They all have their ups and downs. But are you seeing a real problem in their relationship, or are you seeing what you want to see?
That's great. But don't confuse closeness with love (and it's easy to confuse the two!). Closeness stirs up some powerful feelings at times, especially for men, I think, because we are not really taught to share our deepest feelings. But no matter how great a guy you might be, Ann still might not see you as the type of guy she is looking for. Try to accept the relationship for what it is, because when you try changing it into something else, you will often lose that special relationship. A relationship can only change if BOTH people want it to.
One way or another, your feelings will change. In my experience, being rejected by a girl does a lot to change my feelings for her. And that's not just a defensive reaction. It's because I wasn't seeing her for who she is, and the girl who I saw her as couldn't and wouldn't have rejected me. Sometimes you're able to still salvage a friendship from that, but even if that's the case, it will be forever tainted. There are some lines that, once you cross, you can never go back. That doesn't mean you shouldn't cross them. It just means that you should consider the consequences carefullly, make the best decision you can, and then live with what happens.
ARG! I can't believe that I forgot point 4 and it's by far the most important one:
Point 4: http://ss.cdnow.com/H/18/01/38501801.mp2
The soundtrack to your life!
Point 4: http://ss.cdnow.com/H/18/01/38501801.mp2
The soundtrack to your life!
Teflon Billy
Explorer
You will not bea ble to maintain good relations with both of them if you attempt this (but it doesn't sound like you have much of a chance of that anyway). The following advice is for if you decide that you want soemthing with Ann more than a continued relationship with Morgan.
This is not an unworkable situation, but you'll have to treat it as a longer-term plan than most of the variations we have heard on "just tell him/her/them how you feel" (which is, I might add, atrocious advice if you hope for any other outcome besdies "both of them hate you").
Point one in your favor: Ann seems comfortable being alone with you. Most of the following advice needs to be used when you and she are alone.
Point two in your favor: You seem to be in that "really good gay friend" role that girls of that age seem to attach to straight guys who are sexually interested, but not particularly forward with them about it. This gives you a good platform to work from.
Point three in your favor: You mention that Ann seems dissatisfied with the relationship with Morgan. This is the "Chink in the Armor" that you can work on.
Here we go...
1) Do not declare your love for her yet.
2) Listen: It may take awhile, but eventually (if she is, indeed, dissatisfied with Morgan) she will begin to complain. You are her "Eunuch" at the moment: Her sexless male friend.
Nurture this. Recount your own stories about Morgan's flaws. Build a shared camraderie over Morgan's failings. Men bond over shared activity, Women bond over the sharing of secrets.
Share her dissatisfaction with Morgan.
3) Get her to start thinking of you as a sexual being: And no, I don't mean anything overt. Touch her hand occasionally in conversation. Hug her as a greeting (no as a farewell; too much tension there), just anything that can get you on the road away from that "realy good friend" role and into the "new boyfriend" role.
I'll repeat in case you missed it: Act on this advice and you can forget Morgan being your friend.
But if you want Ann, it can be done.
This is not an unworkable situation, but you'll have to treat it as a longer-term plan than most of the variations we have heard on "just tell him/her/them how you feel" (which is, I might add, atrocious advice if you hope for any other outcome besdies "both of them hate you").
Point one in your favor: Ann seems comfortable being alone with you. Most of the following advice needs to be used when you and she are alone.
Point two in your favor: You seem to be in that "really good gay friend" role that girls of that age seem to attach to straight guys who are sexually interested, but not particularly forward with them about it. This gives you a good platform to work from.
Point three in your favor: You mention that Ann seems dissatisfied with the relationship with Morgan. This is the "Chink in the Armor" that you can work on.
Here we go...
1) Do not declare your love for her yet.
2) Listen: It may take awhile, but eventually (if she is, indeed, dissatisfied with Morgan) she will begin to complain. You are her "Eunuch" at the moment: Her sexless male friend.
Nurture this. Recount your own stories about Morgan's flaws. Build a shared camraderie over Morgan's failings. Men bond over shared activity, Women bond over the sharing of secrets.
Share her dissatisfaction with Morgan.
3) Get her to start thinking of you as a sexual being: And no, I don't mean anything overt. Touch her hand occasionally in conversation. Hug her as a greeting (no as a farewell; too much tension there), just anything that can get you on the road away from that "realy good friend" role and into the "new boyfriend" role.
I'll repeat in case you missed it: Act on this advice and you can forget Morgan being your friend.
But if you want Ann, it can be done.
Teflon Billy
Explorer
...also, I don't know what age you are, but if it's possible, arrange to have drinks with her.
Drinking makes people...
A) Maudlin (she will be more likely to begin listing her complaints about Mrogan, setting your plan in motion)
B) Uninhibited (She will be more likely to consider things she wouldn't in her everyday life; like "trading up" from Morgan to you).
Drinking makes people...
A) Maudlin (she will be more likely to begin listing her complaints about Mrogan, setting your plan in motion)
B) Uninhibited (She will be more likely to consider things she wouldn't in her everyday life; like "trading up" from Morgan to you).
Humanophile
First Post
Quick "Should I chase after Ann" checklist:
- How long have you known Morgan? How much have you been through together?
- How long do you and a girl usually last before one of you gets bored of the other? (And who usually gets bored first?)
- How tied into your social circle are Morgan and Ann?
- How active is your conscience after you do something bad?
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Think all of these over before making a move. It's not that it can't be done, it's just should it.
Daniel Knight
First Post
I cannot stress this enough… do not do it. This is not cool no matter how you look at it. Move on, and forget about it – unless you’ve experienced the pain of losing someone to whom you trust, you simply cannot imagine what it’s like. Even dating her after they have broken up is a big no-no (unless he broke up with her). If you’re going to do it, at least have the decency of waiting for him to get over it.
There is big pain ahead for this situation. I mean, you’ll be fine, and she’ll be fine, but your friend will most likely fall into a depression. We’re talking about some serious psychological scarring here that you do not want to be a part of.
Trust me on this. I’m still f*cked up from my “mate” doing this to me nine months ago.
There is big pain ahead for this situation. I mean, you’ll be fine, and she’ll be fine, but your friend will most likely fall into a depression. We’re talking about some serious psychological scarring here that you do not want to be a part of.
Trust me on this. I’m still f*cked up from my “mate” doing this to me nine months ago.
