D&D 5E Treantmonk's Guide to Wizards 5e

[Cognomen's Cassowary]

RE: phantasmal force

Single target save or suck with a save every round that several creatures are immune to. I'm satisfied with its rating.

When intelligence is one of the best attributes to target in every single tier of play, the save-or-suck aspect is muted: even if you cast it without foreknowledge of individual monster attributes, it should stick more than 70% of the time. There is no save every round. The creature can use an action to do an investigation check. That's a gain in the action economy, and since there are something like two creatures in the monster manual that have proficiency in investigation, it's better than a save.

Besides that, as with all illusion spells, phantasmal force cannot be approached purely mechanistically, as it has a variety of applications to suit the player's imagination. I once had a PC use it to create a ten-foot-tall golden bear god which convinced the enemy to give up his destructive pursuits and turn to druidism. Boom, fight ended. (And inspiration awarded.)

 

[jgsugden]

My experience is that the big baddie with a bunch of soft minions was more common in 4e. In 5e I find a lot of big baddies by themselves, or groups of monsters of equivalent value (These are the situations I'm normally lobbing in a fireball). Sometimes there is a big baddie with minions, but this seems to be the exception, at least in the published 5e adventures I've run so far.

It was certainly more common to see supporting fodder in 4E, but I see it a lot in 5E as well.

When I do see it, it does pose more of a problem. The minion mechanic in 4E made it relatively easy to sweep enemies, and the monsters did not hit hard when you had to work past them before they died. In 5E, there are fewer 'at will' sweeping options, the weak minions often have more hps than at will sweeping can remove, and the minion-esque monsters hit harder. Devoting one or two prepared spells to sweepers has not been something I've regretted for my wizzies.

 

[CapnZapp]

Everybody loves a big baddie on his lonesome.

Except, it appears, the 5e rules - since close to zero big baddies are troublesome on their own by RAW.

 

[CapnZapp]

In 5E, there are fewer 'at will' sweeping options, the weak minions often have more hps than at will sweeping can remove, and the minion-esque monsters hit harder. Devoting one or two prepared spells to sweepers has not been something I've regretted for my wizzies.

Spirit Guardians is such a overwhelmingly useful spell it almost by itself justifies bringing a Cleric along.

 

[Paolo Borello]

Hello, new 5e player here.
I love the god wizard concept so kudos to you for the well written guide, now my question:

How would you compare the god wizard to the bard?
It seems to me that battlefield control, buffs and debuffs are the conceptual concept of the bard class so, if I don't care about fireballing or damaging is the bard a more appropriate choice or is it a completely different play-style?

Thanks

Edit: upon reading the bard's features and spell list I came to the conclusion that he's more focused on buffing and charming opposed to the wizard's battlefield control and debuff (other then damage ofc), I think the bard would make a great "god-wizard" but I'm going to stick with the original

 

[Treantmonklvl20]

Hello, new 5e player here.
I love the god wizard concept so kudos to you for the well written guide, now my question:

How would you compare the god wizard to the bard?
It seems to me that battlefield control, buffs and debuffs are the conceptual concept of the bard class so, if I don't care about fireballing or damaging is the bard a more appropriate choice or is it a completely different play-style?

Thanks

Edit: upon reading the bard's features and spell list I came to the conclusion that he's more focused on buffing and charming opposed to the wizard's battlefield control and debuff (other then damage ofc), I think the bard would make a great "god-wizard" but I'm going to stick with the original

Hey Paolo Borello. So, first off, the Bard is a great class. I enjoy playing a Bard, but it really doesn't do the "god wizard" very well at all. The problem is that the spell list simply lacks the battlefield control options or the defensive options of the Wizard (don't worry about the blasts). Zero walls. No Evards. No Otiluke's sphere's, no Dimension Door, no Misty Step, no mirror image, no shield, no Pyrotechnics, no Watery sphere. Basically, the spells I rate blue - very few of them are available to Bards.

That said, inspiration is good, ability to access healing spells is good, ability to wear armor is good. Bard's are a good class, but fufill a different role than wizards, and as "god" wizards, just don't fufill the role very well.

 

[MooreVol]

Hi! Long time reader (of this thread), first time poster (I think). So I've just (relatively) recently gotten back into RPG's after (poorly) "playing" 2e and some others in high school. I've really enjoyed your guide. Very helpful and my wizard, who is mostly based on your guide, has been a lot of fun to play. While it's occasionally a little boring to just use cantrips (keeping my "powder" dry, so to speak) during early encounters, more than one BBEG battle has been won easily thanks to the wily shenanigans of my (demi-)god wizard.

A couple things:

-Conjure Lesser Demons. I know it's UA but it's allowed in our game, and has been my best spell so far. Summoning 8 dretches to surround the BBEG is delightful. Their damage is icing, but how they impede movement and draw opportunity attacks is the best part. If you can land a Blindness/Deafness spell on the BBEG in the next round (and as a Diviner, I often can) and get advantage on their attacks, then they're doing damage comparable to a fireball each round (though obviously it decreases each round as they're killed off). It seems like it's better than most of the control spells at this level. The only downside is that the rest of my party hates it as the dretch attacks do slow down the game a little.

-So I'm at 7th level now and looking at Level 4 spells. I'm intrigued by Storm Sphere. Your guide mentions having to restrain or trap creatures... Is that because the 60ft-from-the-center range is not so great? Or because if you're not also getting the 2d6 bludgeoning damage from being in the 20ft radius of the sphere that the damage isn't worth it?
I'm thinking that the bonus action attack (even if it's just 4d6) is pretty worthwhile and that the 2d6 bludgeoning damage and 20ft radius sphere of no-trespassiness is icing on the cake. But I'm really not very into the numbers and so forth, so I'm not sure if the low-ish damage makes it not as great as it seems. Would appreciate your thoughts (and everyone else's too - it took me 2-3 weeks to read the 58 pages of this thread to make sure it hadn't already been discussed, but it was an enjoyable read).

-I know you've downgraded Evard's already, but I was curious. How much do you take into account that it allows a STR OR DEX check to escape? I'm used to selecting my spells based on what I expect to be each creature's weakness, but giving them a choice seems like it would really weaken the pool of targets. Are there that many creatures/monsters/bad guys with low STR and DEX? Or once you get your Spell DC above 16 (17?) does it not really matter that much?

-I'm excited for Polymorph, Banishment, and Watery Sphere (and Storm Sphere, I think). Level 4 spells seem like a lotta fun. That is all.

 

[SpoCk0nd0pe]

-I'm excited for Polymorph, Banishment, and Watery Sphere (and Storm Sphere, I think). Level 4 spells seem like a lotta fun. That is all.

Me too!

To add another spell to the discussion: I've thought a lot about Watery Sphere. It seems like a really good spell but are you sure it is sky blue good? To me it reads: Make a str save in 10x10 radius or be restrained. I thought really hard about how the forced movement could be useful but I would think a DM would most likely rule that a Creature that is in melee and makes it's str save could try to remain in melee. There are no other uses of that forced movement that I could come up with.
Moving the sphere is an action and it can only move in a straight line. While it is nice to collect more creatures or any creatures that previously escaped the sphere, an action is a pretty steep cost imho.

[edit]
You also barely commented on Transmute Rock. I still think it is a green spell. The area is huge, you need 160 ft movement to cross it, even if you make your save. So if you don't fly, the spell works. Yes, the need for rock makes it situational but against non flyers it is more secure then a wall of stone. The 4d6 damage on a failed save isn't much at that level but it is a nice bonus. The spell may also have some out of combat utility.

But the most important aspect of the spell is the non concentration. There are 4 battlefield control spells I know of which do not require concentration: Grease, Forcecage, Prismatic Wall and this. Transmute Rock is not the kind of spell you should pick when you get to level 9. You should pick it up at 10 though to use when you hit 13 or so. A battlefield control spell this effective without concentration is worth a lot, even if somewhat situational (needs rock, needs no flyers but otherwise very effective even when saved).

 

[Treantmonklvl20]

Hi MooreVol, glad you've enjoyed my guide and the thread!

Conjure Lesser Demons. I know it's UA but it's allowed in our game, and has been my best spell so far.

The groups I play with don't use UA material at all, so I don't bother even reading them. One thing I note from your description is that it sounds like you are choosing what you summon. Is this a feature of the spell? Normally with summoning, it's the GM who decides who answers the summons (according to the official FAQ regarding summoning spells). This is what prevents Druids for example from using Conjure Woodland Beings to summon a bunch of polymorph casting pixies if memory serves.

-So I'm at 7th level now and looking at Level 4 spells. I'm intrigued by Storm Sphere. Your guide mentions having to restrain or trap creatures... Is that because the 60ft-from-the-center range is not so great? Or because if you're not also getting the 2d6 bludgeoning damage from being in the 20ft radius of the sphere that the damage isn't worth it?
I'm thinking that the bonus action attack (even if it's just 4d6) is pretty worthwhile and that the 2d6 bludgeoning damage and 20ft radius sphere of no-trespassiness is icing on the cake. But I'm really not very into the numbers and so forth, so I'm not sure if the low-ish damage makes it not as great as it seems. Would appreciate your thoughts (and everyone else's too - it took me 2-3 weeks to read the 58 pages of this thread to make sure it hadn't already been discussed, but it was an enjoyable read).

Yes, a bit of both of those reasons. You create a sphere, that remains while you concentrate on it (for up to a minute), that importantly is immobile. The sphere does damage to those within it that is not particularly good, then you can use up your bonus action, 1/round, to make an attack roll on an enemy within 60' of the sphere for another 4d6 damage.

Seems to me that essentially you are getting about 6d6 damage on a single target (if you hit and they fail their strength save) in the first round, then after that it's using up your concentration and your bonus actions to maybe do 4d6 damage to a single target. By itself that's not too bad (not great - but OK), but since the sphere is immobile, you have to also deal with the possibility that applicable targets might just move away. Often it won't be tactically smart for them to do that, but it's not that rare either. as a 4th level spell, this is a pretty big investment. This is why I mention restraining in my evaluation. When you can walk away from the effect, that's a hefty downside. I still don't think the spell is bad, it's OK.

-I know you've downgraded Evard's already, but I was curious. How much do you take into account that it allows a STR OR DEX check to escape? I'm used to selecting my spells based on what I expect to be each creature's weakness, but giving them a choice seems like it would really weaken the pool of targets. Are there that many creatures/monsters/bad guys with low STR and DEX? Or once you get your Spell DC above 16 (17?) does it not really matter that much?

It matters moderately. It's not a deal breaker, but it's not good either. No, spell DC's (in my experience) never get so high that creatures never save, and saving throws/ability checks never get so high that they always save. Str or Dex check to escape means escaping will happen more often, but not always. With spells like Evard's - the trick is always to cast when you can trap multiple creatures, so that some save while others don't - dividing their forces.

-I'm excited for Polymorph, Banishment, and Watery Sphere (and Storm Sphere, I think). Level 4 spells seem like a lotta fun. That is all.

Yes, and you are getting to the level where you will be relying on cantrips less (as you have more castings overall), which is also nice. Level 7 is a bit of a turning point for Wizards, where they really start to shine, and it just gets better from here!

 

[Treantmonklvl20]

I've thought a lot about Watery Sphere. It seems like a really good spell but are you sure it is sky blue good?

Nope. That was my first impression, but I've had limited practical experience with the spell to change my views to this point.

To me it reads: Make a str save in 10x10 radius or be restrained. I thought really hard about how the forced movement could be useful but I would think a DM would most likely rule that a Creature that is in melee and makes it's str save could try to remain in melee. There are no other uses of that forced movement that I could come up with.

What the spell says is "On a successful save, the creature is ejected from that space, to the nearest unoccupied space outside it."

The forced movement for those that make their saves is only circumstantially useful. However, those circumstances aren't that hard to think up. Here's one off the top of my head:

Your party is walking down the street, when assassins attack!

Look there on that rooftop - it's an archer! He keeps popping up and down behind the ledge and being a real jerk. (I'll mark him with a J)

(Edit - these did not work out at all. Sorry about that. Let me try playing with them a bit - OK - pretend the "X"'s are empty space)

XXXXXXXXXX|
XXXXXXXXXX|
XXXXXXXX J |
__________|

Shooting at poor party down here.


So you cast Watery sphere. You place it like this: (Sorry, this looks pretty crappy - but hopefully is understandable

XXXXXXXXXXX|
XXXXX_______|
XXXXX| XX| XX|
XXXXX|___|___|
XXXXX| XX| XJ |
_____|___|___|

So the assassin makes his save - and he's ejected out of the sphere to the nearest unoccupied space. That gives him two options - both of them send him off the rooftop.

Moving the sphere is an action and it can only move in a straight line. While it is nice to collect more creatures or any creatures that previously escaped the sphere, an action is a pretty steep cost imho.

An action is a hefty cost. Then again, restrained is a pretty nice condition - and being able to move those restrained targets around is pretty nice too. Not really a spell you want to use when everything is on the line, and you are willing to cast many spells, but when you want to cast 1 spell for the entire battle, and contribute throughout, I still think this should perform very nicely. I'm not sure my rating is correct - but that's still the rating I lean to.

You also barely commented on Transmute Rock. I still think it is a green spell. The area is huge, you need 160 ft movement to cross it, even if you make your save. So if you don't fly, the spell works. Yes, the need for rock makes it situational but against non flyers it is more secure then a wall of stone. The 4d6 damage on a failed save isn't much at that level but it is a nice bonus. The spell may also have some out of combat utility.

There definitely may be some out of combat utility, though I'm pretty stingy about using a 5th level slot for utility. I wouldn't really compare it to a wall of stone for combat utility. A wall of stone can be placed between enemies that are right beside each other, dividing them. A pool of mud relies on those enemies already being far apart, and not using ranged attacks (or flying as you point out). Certainly of use if you are trying to prevent an enemy from closing on you quickly and they begin far away, and aren't capable of flight, and the ground you are on is rock, but that's a lot of circumstances. I agree that no concentration is nice, I'm just not all that sold on the effect. I am inclined to agree with you that picking this up at a higher level is attractive as you will be looking for more non-concentration spells, and there is a certain niche of situations where this could be very handy.

For me, when I consider a spell highly situational, I lean to orange.