TV show Star Trek: Starfleet Academy Starts Production in 2024

[Thomas Shey]

I wasn't sure of Roddenberry's involvement in either "Strange New World" or "Planet Earth", so I didn't mention them. I definitely knew that "Genesis II" involved many of the same beats as were eventually used in "Andromeda", and that it was in all likelihood the seed for it.

Actually, I was confused; it wasn't "Strange New World" but "Planet Earth" I was thinking of.

 

[Umbran]

I don't know, are you?

Let me be more verbose in the question - Have we covered the topic to your satisfaction? Is there anything more material to say on the matter?

 

[Thomas Shey]

Let me be more verbose in the question - Have we covered the topic to your satisfaction? Is there anything more material to say on the matter?

I don't know, does "I had a point and made it, and you seem to be insisting on my point being broader than it was" actually convey my objections to your posts? Because it does not appear so.

 

[Ryujin]

Actually, I was confused; it wasn't "Strange New World" but "Planet Earth" I was thinking of.

"Strange New World" was a sequel to "Planet Earth." Easy to get them confused. If I remember correctly it was the inferior movie, because it didn't have Ted Cassidy (Lurch the Butler) as a member of the cast. While over the top, he was an excellent actor.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Hell the unwashed peasants who have never left their village trope isn’t even true, as even tiny thorps in Europe had public bath houses, and the roads were full of travelers of all kinds, including tourists and adventurers, people escaping bad landlords to live in a city and find work (or turning to banditry), pilgrims, and of course tradesfolk.

Whilst I 100% agree with your renaissance rant, and yeah that's a sadly common misconception, it's worth noting there is actually something to "peasant who has never left their village" but it wasn't so much ignorance, it was because serfs typically couldn't leave the area without permission. The pilgrims and travellers and so on were typically higher social classes, and a serf leaving to live in a city was potentially breaking the law in much of Europe (and in similar systems in the rest of the world), though actual enforcement of that was variable.

Bathing was also highly variable depending on the specific culture. There's a famous description from the 800s or 900s where a Saxon dude is real upset with the nearby Norse settlers, because the Norse guy wash practically every day, which he considers unnatural and inappropriate.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Whilst I 100% agree with your renaissance rant, and yeah that's a sadly common misconception, it's worth noting there is actually something to "peasant who has never left their village" but it wasn't so much ignorance, it was because serfs typically couldn't leave the area without permission.

Permission wasn’t hard to get in most places and times within the Middle Ages.

The pilgrims and travellers and so on were typically higher social classes,

This isn’t really accurate, see above. Serfs, freemen farmers, etc, went on pilgrimages. Less often than the wealthy? Sure. But “typically” implies that they were rare, and they weren’t.

and a serf leaving to live in a city was potentially breaking the law in much of Europe (and in similar systems in the rest of the world), though actual enforcement of that was variable.

Of course it was illegal, thus “escape”.

Bathing was also highly variable depending on the specific culture. There's a famous description from the 800s or 900s where a Saxon dude is real upset with the nearby Norse settlers, because the Norse guy wash practically every day, which he considers unnatural and inappropriate.

Sure, but the Saxons still bathed, just not as frequently. The Norse were known for being fastidious compared to thier neighbors, but few places (if any) just like, didn’t wash.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Permission wasn’t hard to get in most places and times within the Middle Ages.

That seems like a fairly dangerous generalization for which we have limited supporting evidence.

This isn’t really accurate, see above. Serfs, freemen farmers, etc, went on pilgrimages. Less often than the wealthy? Sure. But “typically” implies that they were rare, and they weren’t.

Freemen farmers explicitly aren't serfs, so I'm not sure why you're including them. That's strange because obviously freemen aren't, by definition, bound by the same rules as serfs. I don't think we have great evidence for actual serfs going on pilgrimages on any regular basis, though we know it happened at least a bit. Also there were some mass movements which seemed to override landowner controls.

Other points it seems like you're arguing for the sake of arguing.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

That seems like a fairly dangerous generalization for which we have limited supporting evidence.

Not really. Search “medieval misconceptions” and similar phrases on YouTube, look for channels of actual Medieval Historians, and see what they say about this stuff.

Freemen farmers explicitly aren't serfs, so I'm not sure why you're including them.

Because you’re the only one trying to only discuss serfs?

That's strange because obviously freemen aren't, by definition, bound by the same rules as serfs. I don't think we have great evidence for actual serfs going on pilgrimages on any regular basis, though we know it happened at least a bit. Also there were some mass movements which seemed to override landowner controls.

It’s just odd that you’re harping on the difference between types of peasants when nothing I’ve said on the topic really needs the distinction in order to be discussed.

Other points it seems like you're arguing for the sake of arguing.

Hardly, I’m arguing because when someone replies to me with an argument that is, based on my study or experience, wrong, I am inclined to correct errors as I see them.

 

[Umbran]

I don't know, does "I had a point and made it, and you seem to be insisting on my point being broader than it was" actually convey my objections to your posts? Because it does not appear so.

It conveys your objections. But your objections are inaccurate, as I have not "insisted" on anything. Thanks for the clarification, though.

 

[Thomas Shey]

It conveys your objections. But your objections are inaccurate, as I have not "insisted" on anything. Thanks for the clarification, though.

Then I'm afraid I'm back to not understanding what you were expecting of me in your initial response, I'm afraid.