UA Generic Classes--Questions, Comments, NPCs, Prestige?

[LoneWolf23]

How about this, a nice, basic Ninja with introductory abilities.. Build up as you go along..

Basic Ninja
Warrior 1/Expert 2; Medium Human (5 ft.8in. tall) HD: 1d6/1d10, HP: 14; BAB: +2; Saves: Fort +0, Ref +5, Will +2; Init: +2; AC: 12 (+2 Dex); Attacks: +2 Melee (Shortsword 1d6 or Unarmed 1d3), Ranged +4 (Shuriken 1d2)
Abilities: Str 11, Dex 15, Con 10, Int 12, Wis 12, Cha 10
Feats:Improved Unarmed Strike, Stealthy, Evasion, Sneak Attack, Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Shuriken).
Class Skills: Balance, Climb, Jump, Heal, Swim, Tumble (Warrior), Bluff, Craft, Disguise, Escape Artist, Gather Information, Hide, Listen, Move Silently, Open Lock, Profession, Search, Sense Motive, Sleight of Hand, Spot (Expert)
Skillpoints: 3/7 per level
Skills: Bluff+4, Climb +2, Disguise +4, Hide +3, Jump +2, Move Silently +3, Tumble +3

 

[Frostmarrow]

How about this, a nice, basic Ninja with introductory abilities.. Build up as you go along..

Basic Ninja
Warrior 1/Expert 2; Medium Human (5 ft.8in. tall) HD: 1d6/1d10, HP: 14; BAB: +2; Saves: Fort +0, Ref +5, Will +2; Init: +2; AC: 12 (+2 Dex); Attacks: +2 Melee (Shortsword 1d6 or Unarmed 1d3), Ranged +4 (Shuriken 1d2)
Abilities: Str 11, Dex 15, Con 10, Int 12, Wis 12, Cha 10
Feats:Improved Unarmed Strike, Stealthy, Evasion, Sneak Attack, Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Shuriken).
Class Skills: Balance, Climb, Jump, Heal, Swim, Tumble (Warrior), Bluff, Craft, Disguise, Escape Artist, Gather Information, Hide, Listen, Move Silently, Open Lock, Profession, Search, Sense Motive, Sleight of Hand, Spot (Expert)
Skillpoints: 3/7 per level
Skills: Bluff+4, Climb +2, Disguise +4, Hide +3, Jump +2, Move Silently +3, Tumble +3

-Neat. But you need 4 ranks in Hide and Move Silently both to get Sneak Attack. Easily remedied. I like it!

For conveniance I would pick the same class skills for both classes and max out but I can see why you did what you did.

 

[woodelf]

isn't that covered by spellcasting and skill use?

Again, isn't this just spellcasting and warrior abilities?

Umm.. Spellcasting??

No. Why do monks (as described in any version of D&D) not cast spells? Because the trope is something sufficiently different from what we generally think of as "magic spells". Similarly, D&D already supports the idea that there're aspects of being a person of faith that don't have anything to do with spellcasting, and fantasy lit supports even more. Most of a paladin's abilities (other than combat abilities) are the sort of thing i'm talking about--not spellcasting, but clearly supernatural, and derived from faith. Likewise turning undead. And a druid's shapeshifting. As for the wilderness trope: you're right, it's less of a distinct thing under the current system, but i think it *should* be distinct. Look at the literature: even the jack-of-all-trades, able to do things she's never even tried before, is generally not portrayed as having particular wilderness survival skills. Likewise, the wilderness archetype, as portrayed in characters like Goldmoon and the main character of Last of the Mohicans, and Tarzan, and so on, is seen as being ultra-competent when dealing with the natural world, but not particularly skillful or technical. So i think it can best be portrayed with two distinct classes. Yes, an argument could be made for simply having different skill/feat tracks, but i'm building in bits for the two classes that wouldn't cross over as easily, and it simply makes for a clearer division of archetypes.

Now, if you only have 3 classes, as done with the "generic classes" option in Unearthed Arcana, you either don't have a particular home for such things as turning undead and the paladin's aura, or you tie them to one of the other sorts of ability (spellcasting, skill use, or combat). The former solution has a problem, in that you lose some of the distinctiveness (much like warriors being able to usurp the rogue's schtick by sneak-attacking while still having superior combat skills, as others have talked about). But the latter also has a problem: why should you have to cast spells to turn undead? Why should you have to cast spells to leap 100'? Why should you have to be good at combat to hunt animals? Why should you have to cast spells to have an animal companion? And so on--since the point of functionalist classes, rather than archetype-based classes, is to break it down to capabilities, and let people use them to build the archetype they want, maintaining some of those archetype-based ties undermines the point. If i want to play a character who is divinely inspired and casts spells, i can do that with the core classes. It's when i want to play someone who's divinely inpsired and *doesn't* cast spells, that i need to break out the abilities into separate classes, and break down those amalgamations of disparate abilities.

 

[Particle_Man]

Maybe a stiff feat tree would help (a la whirlwind attack)? With heavy skill requirements, or alignment or even roleplaying requirements (must be devoted to god X, or the monk's code, etc.)? Just spitballing.

 

[AFGNCAAP]

Thanks for the replies! Keep `em coming!

Really like the idea of the generic iconics--nifty stuff there.

One question I am curious about (& would really like to hear everyone's views on) is what class abilities could feasibly be broken up-turned into feats, & which class abilities should strictly remain class abilities (and thus, only be available through a PrC for the generic classes)? Should there be strict prerequisites on some of these feats (like only available to 1st-level characters)?

And what about other options, like using a spellbook (possibly eliminating the limit on # of spells known, but reducing the # of spells/day), or a mix & match of prepared & spontaneous spells (like the druid & cleric)?

Personally, I think that some class abilities should remain class abilities, & only be available through PrCs for the generic characters. Some other abilities seem best made/used as feats, though. For example, here are some other class abilities that I think may work as feats:

• Damage Reduction (barbarian); Perhaps would require ranks in skills like Endurance, &/or other feats, like Toughness
• Bardic Knowledge (bard); available with X ranks in Knowledge skills, perhaps?
• Animal Companion (druid, ranger): If the familiar is available, why not this class ability?
• Slow Fall (monk); stackable with multiuple selections, increasing by 10' with each selection after the 1st
• AC Bonus (monk)/Divine Grace (paladin); basically, any ability that allows a positive attribute modifier from 1 ability apply elsewhere (like a monk's Wisdom bonus to AC, or a paladin's Charisma bonus to saves). This could only increase by the attribute being increased.
• Aligned Aura (cleric, paladin); Prereq.: cast divine spells. Available only to 1st-level PCs

Also, I'd consider allowing the warrior to be able to select the Fighter-only feats (Weapon Specialization & the like), while spellcasters could select the Metamagic feats.

OTOH, here are a few class abilities which I thionk should remain class abilities:

• Barbarian's rage abilities (perhaps in a berserker PrC)
• Any class ability that grants immunity to some effect, like the paladin's Aura of Courage, or the druid's Immunity to Venom
• Monk's increased unarmed combat damage
• Monk's level-based AC bonus
• Druid's wild shape ability
• Bard's bardic music ability, esp. if it has a magical effect
• Smite evil (or basically, smite opposing AL)

However, here's some ideas I'm not sure about making into feats/flaws/traits:

• Increase Hit Die (feat): available at 1st level only, allows PC to increase HD up to next highest die type (e.g., from a d4 to a d6, a d6 to a d8, or a d10 to a d12).
• Skill Point Bonus (feat): available at 1st level only, allows PC to increase starting & subsequent skill point base by 2 (thus, from 2 to 4, & from 6 to 8)
• Decrease Hit Die (flaw): available at 1st level only, allws PC to decrease HD to next lowest die type (e.g., from a d10 to a d8, or a d6 to a d4). Prerequsite--must have a d6 or higher for a Hit Die.
• Decrease Skill Points (flaw): available at 1st level only, allows PC to decrease starting & subsequent skill point base by 2 (thus, from 6 to 4). Prerequiste--must have a 4 or higher skill point base.
• Prepared Spells (trait): available at 1st level only (For arcane spellcasters only). Benefit--Arcane spellcaster loses limit on # of spells known. Hindrance--Arcane spellcaster must use a spellbook to record spells known, prepare spells each day, & number of spells/day foir each level decreases by 1 (minimum of 1).

Well, what do y'all think?