Useing Dexterity to hit --> everytime.

[magic_gathering2001]

thanks, I just hope the numbers work.

 

[Nyaricus]

some responses here . . .

Wow guys, you gave me a lot of feedback in a very short period of time. Thanks for taking to time respond! I'll try to get to all of you, but for those that basically just reiterated what others already said, i'll respond to the first response.

Just to reiterate myself, i am talking about a system-wide, standard change. Dex would be to hit.

Some of the arguments for using strength are

1. Game balance (dex becomes to important)
2. Swinging any object of even 3-4 pounds for a short stretch of time does not have to do with agility, it requires strength
3. As armor makes you more difficult to hit rather than reduce damage, strength bonus to hit actually models hitting hard enough to get through armor
4. While agility might help you landing blows, strenght is required to make them matter (do damage)
5. Without strength you will not be able to move your weapon fast and precise enough to use your agility

1) I think str is already in pretty high regards, regardless, in combat. If you don't have a greatsword, you have a rapier and weapon finesse, or a bow. It's all about the character you have, adn what their role is.
2) i would use minimun Str rules for weapons to be used. This only makes sense using Dex to hit.
3) IMC, i am also considering using Armour = DR (per the book From Stone to Steel). Furthermore, when you are hit in combat, your armour takes damage equal to the damage taken minus your armours hardness, which the leftover is applied to your hitpoints. [i am going to start another thread on this topic BTW, to see if it is a balanced ruling]
4) right. Dex= to hit, Str = Damage
5) minimun Str for weapons should sole this problem.

Does Wisdom mod for Initiative appeal? I think you have mentioned it yourself (Nyaricus) - is that right?

Well anyway, it might help to somewhat offset the power slide.

Maybe if there's some way you'd like to emphasise the consequences of being caught off-guard, that might help to further balance things. By means of Wisdom becoming more highly prized in general (i.e., not just for divine casters), that is.

I am planning on using Wisdom+d20 for init for my campaign, previous even to this thread (so yes, Aus Snow, you are right, i do accept that change/varient)

In my games, I split Dex into Dexterity and Agility; Agility has AC and Reflex saves, Dex has all to hit rolls and the majority of the skills. Dex is about coordination, Agility is about speed.

I'm also having armor grant some DR and having their ACs reduced slightly, as UA suggests; this will help counter the potentially lower ACs, to hits, or damage that melee characters may suffer from.

It's worked out well so far, but adding ability scores does strain the system (it's harder to aquire magic items to boost them for instance).

dude, having two abilities makes so much sense, and yet only further complicates things (like you say). I'd love to use it, but i . . .hesitate. Too many things to consider. I'd rather kepe the core 6 here, in this case. Nice idea though - I'll keep that in my notes.

Now, I can definitely see why requiring a certain level of strength to even heft those things might be logical (in fact, that's part of my house rules - minimum Strength ratings for every single weapon, with a penalty applying if it's not met), but in terms of coordination, accuracy etc. (i.e., being able to actually hit something)? No, I think Dexterity is the appropriate ability to represent that.

Aus_Snow, are those the rules, page 306 in From Stone to Steel, or are you using another system?

Name: Weapon Finesse
Prerequisites: see below
Bentifit: You may add your DEX modifier to attack rolls with any weapon so long as your strength is greater than or equal to tice the wieght of the weapon in pounds.
Special: This bonus does not stack with your strength bonus to attack rolls

nice feat if you want to introduce dexterity into you game - but like i said i want to make it standardized. The only thing i could add is that any weapon that could be applied to the standard Weapon Finesse should count as weighing half of what it actually does (rapiers, etc). That way, it still keep the flavour for quicker weapons.

******

Hope that helps explain some of my veiws on this . . . i await your erudite responses.

 

[Nyaricus]

There's a pretty extensive variant combat system over at The Waking Lands, which takes the Dex to Hit/Str to Damage idea and combines it with Armor as Damage Reduction.

Thank you for the link, Sir Brennan. The more i see, the more i like The Waking Lands. I will have to go over it in greater detail, when i get the chance

Thanks again

 

[Aus_Snow]

Aus_Snow, are those the rules, page 306 in From Stone to Steel, or are you using another system?

Actually, I was using that house rule - made from scratch (simple as it is) - long before I came across FStS (thanks to your recommendation).

I'll have to have a look at that page when I get a chance; thanks for the headsup.

Anyway, I think that kind of rules addition helps to maintain the importance of Strength, so that's why I decided to mention it.


re: The Waking Lands - that was quite funny, when someone posted a link to that months ago; I saw numerous house rules I'd implemented and others I'd been thinking about *there in print* (well, virtually). Quite the shock.

 

[Strutinan]

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[Nyaricus]

yeah, there are loads of varient ruels at the back of the book (starting page 304) for D&D. i like many, and use the new range increments for my players bows.

as for the waking lands, i have to laugh as well! many things are there, from wis for init, to a Berserker base class (like the one i have posted up on EN World)

 

[monboesen]

i would use minimun Str rules for weapons to be used. This only makes sense using Dex to hit.

If you are using that rule I don't think the weapons weight in pounds is the way to go. That would mean any character with str 12+ can use dex with every normal weapon. A simple solution would be require Str = double (or even triple) the weight in pounds. That way it requires superhuman strength to finesse polearms and the likes.

 

[Nyaricus]

In the book From Stone to Steel, the rule for minimum Str is: you refer to the Light Load table in Carrying Capacity. For every pound over that 1/4, you get -1 to hit. A individual with 10 Str may carry 8 pounds (33/4 = 8.25, rounded down = 8). Thus a Str 10 individual can use most d20 weapons, but a heavy mace, heavy lance, bastard sword and Waraxe might cause trouble. Now, it doesn't say this, but what would/could be the rules for using a wepioan 2 handed? medium capacity/4 for a 10 Str PC gives us (66/4 = 16.5, rounded down =) 16 pounds, which covers most weapons. I think that is too much power, to fast (he does have only 10 Str, after all) light capacity/2 = 16.5 as well, so perhaps this is too flawed.

What i'd like to see is a PC with 13/14 Str just be over the threashold for using most of the heavier matrial weapons. Averaging 1-H wepaons, it gived about 7 Ibs for average (for medium sized creatures). Okay . . .now, what mathematical formula will give use a fighter with 13 Str the ability to use a 7 Ib weapon one handed? diveding the Light Load capacity by 7.5 gives us this . .but thats still kinda vague, and unreliable (and easiliy fogettable).

Actually, i just read through the thread, and came across Strutinan's post:

2: Characters have a -1 attack penalty per lb thier wielded weapon EXCEEDS half ther Str score if wielded in one hand, full Str if wielded in two hands.

i like it. very simple, easy to remeber, adn makes actual ability SCORES (not bonuses) more useful. kudos, man, this is what i think will make the cut

***EDIT thanks for raising the point, monboesen, but yes, polearms do need to be addressed. They shouldn't be treated the same (they were always such slow, and unweildy weapons).

 

[Strutinan]

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[Nyaricus]

here's what i am thinking.

Minimum Strength
1-handed Weapons - 1/2 your Strength score, rounded up, is the number of pounds your weapon may weigh. For each pound exceeding this, you gain a cumulative -1 to hit.

2-handed Weapons - you Strength score is the number of pounds you weapon may weigh. For each pound exceeding this, you gain a cumulative -1 to hit.