MarauderX said:
Precisely. And those are just the 18th level critters, not something that would go against an 18th level party.
Huh? MAny of those critters were CR 20. And oddly enough, CR 18 is standard fare for ECL 18 characters.
The worst is for the Marilith & Pit Fiend, and they only need to roll an >11< to avoid the effects. May as well cast hold person on them, it will do just as well.
The Stunning Fist attack also deals damage. It isn't something that you give up anything to do, its an added frill. Having a 50% chance to gaurantee your foe's death is pretty nice IMO.
Stunned is just that - it doesn't mean you are helpless or unaware of what's around you. Being out for 2 rounds in an epic fight is pretty profound, yes, but take a look at the creatures you are fighting - if they roll better than average, you become useless.
Nope, you aren't helpless, but you'll drop whatever you're holding, you won't be acting, your foes will have a better time hitting you, and without some sort of miracle or lots of backup you'll be dead. I think you may be missing the fact that aStunning Fist attack also deals damage. You keep saying that if they make the save you're useless, but you did do damage, which is exactly what would have happened if you hadn't attempted a stunning fist attack.
Grapple. Any mage that has lost initiative to a fast moving monk that grapples ends up tied like a pretzel. It will do better over time, and a monk can deal out lethal damage while pinning that mage. With the weak Str, the wizard may just pin the monk instead.
So you're saying that grapple is better than stunning fist against wizards, but that this character could get pinned by a wizard? I'm confused.
I'm not saying don't get the stun; the DC is too weak to build a whole character around IMO. Any other mage or cleric will give a CR~18 critter shivers with the chances of making the save vs. a monk stunning her.
Nobody is saying to base the character around it. Its 3 feats used out of 20.
I would recommend Great Throw (great with combat reflexes and getting AoOs on opponents standing from prone) along with a level or three of wizard so you can cast Enlarge and Mage Armor.
Dear god no! Don't dilute your monk levels, at least not with wizard levels. If Enlarge and Mage Armor are important, spend a few ranks in Use Magic Device, or better yet ask your wizard friend to spend two of his 9 first level slots to cast them on you.
I would sink half of the bonuses that went to Dex into Str (make them about even) then take Grappling Block if you want to disarm automatically, as your AC will be a bit lower. But your utility with a higher Str will make you more valuable as you will not only be tripping and grappling the feeble mage,
So you can grapple and trip a mage. What are you going to do to that Balor or Dragon?
you can hold your own with the muscle giants too. Being able to grapple, throw, or otherwise take on the BBEG fighter type will earn you the MVP while your comrades can deal with the rest. After all, almost any character class can out-grapple a wizard, not everyone else can tangle up a level 20+ fighter and not die after a dozen rounds.
Improved Grapple is not going to let you beat an equal levelled fighter in a grapple, and disarm will not help either. He will have a higher BABA and strength and is likely to have Imp. Grapple and Disarm himself. And for disarm, he'll probably also have a locking gauntlet, for +10 to the opposed roll. And if your foe isn't medium sized, you're in even worse shape when trying to grapple or disarm.
I do agree that strength is important, but he doesn't have the rolls to have all good stats (which an Exalted Monk needs). He has to suffer somewhere.