D&D (2024) Warlock

[doctorbadwolf]

I never suggested getting rid of it.
Just rewording it to not combine with multiclassing.

Well, making it optional, then.

Hexblade's Cha to attack is main the issue for paladins, and getting a decent ranged attack.
Short rest smite just make the deal even sweeter.

But that isn’t even fixed by changing pact magic.

Though I expect Smite to change a bit. Paladins in general could use a nerf.

I don’t really think they need a nerf, but I do hope they make smite separate from spell slots. It’s always a shame when a player mistakenly thinks it’s the best use of all their slots.

Again, with an appropriate number of extra invocations.
i.e. 3 slots at level 11 -> 3 extra invocations at level 11.
You can spend those 3 on Pact Magic and have the same spells you have now.

Okay, but unless you can only spend those 3 on pact magic and you…have to, then it’s possible to just spend most of your invocations on pact magic, and end up just a weird halfway 3.5 style wizard thing.

Maybe throw in one extra one, as Warlocks could use a little more power IMO.

Sure.

No worries. I got plenty of patience. And it's changing your favorite class, so not a big surprise.

Per the playtest.
If you have a Spell prepared that has the Ritual tag, you can cast that Spellas a Ritual. A special feature is no longer required for Ritual casting.

Seems like that one will stick.

Yeah my idea was before the announcement, so it’s a little more odd in a one D&D enviroment, but basically I toyed with a warlock that gets ritual casting and cantrips only.

Well, it's not like I playtested this. And obviously my wording needs work.

Also, they might do something else to fix the multiclass "slot" issues.

Yeah I think the fix is more likely to come in other classes, but we will see.

 

[mellored]

Okay, but unless you can only spend those 3 on pact magic and you…have to, then it’s possible to just spend most of your invocations on pact magic,

Yup. More build options.

and end up just a weird halfway 3.5 style wizard thing.

Ah... ok, i understand your point about in combat flexibility. Fair.

I toyed with a warlock that gets ritual casting and cantrips only.

It depends on the spell.

I mean, at-will burning hands or magic missile is fine, maybe 2 spell levels behind your max.
But hypnotic pattern should be short rest.
And foresight needs to be daily.

All of which (and more) could be done with invocations. And already kind of are. Just not short rest ones.

"You can also cast water breathing without expending a spell slot. You regain the ability to do so when you finish a long rest."

"You can cast speak with animals at will, without expending a spell slot."

Though this list really should be consolidated.

Pact Cantrip. Select one of the following spells. You can cast it at-will without spending material components.
Mage Armor
Speak with Animals
Levitate (level 9)
Detect Magic
False Life
Disguise Self
Alter Self (level 15)
...

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Yup. More build options.

Ah... ok, i understand your point about in combat flexibility. Fair.

It depends on the spell.

I mean, at-will burning hands or magic missile is fine, maybe 2 spell levels behind your max.
But hypnotic pattern should be short rest.
And foresight needs to be daily.

All of which (and more) could be done with invocations. And already kind of are. Just not short rest ones.

"You can also cast water breathing without expending a spell slot. You regain the ability to do so when you finish a long rest."

"You can cast speak with animals at will, without expending a spell slot."

Though this list really should be consolidated.

Sure, i have no big issue with the spell invocations that exist now, the point of my idea in another thread was to have a mostly at-will warlock whose limited abilities were all opt-in. It’s more (potentially) complex, but also potentially as simple as the rogue.

Pact Cantrip. Select one of the following spells. You can cast it at-will without spending material components.
Mage Armor
Speak with Animals
Levitate (level 9)
Detect Magic
False Life
Disguise Self
Alter Self (level 15)
...

I prefer the evocative names per spell invocation.

 

[mellored]

I prefer the evocative names per spell invocation.

I mean, yes. evocative names are good.
But also your printing "at will, without expending a spell slot or material components." 13 times. That's a lot of page space taken up that could be used foe more invocations.

Maybe do both?

Pact Cantrip. Select one of the following. You gain a spell and can cast it at-will without spending material components.
Armor of Shadows: Mage Armor
Beast Speach: Speak with Animals
Ascendant Step (level 9): Levitate
...

 

[mellored]

Sure, i have no big issue with the spell invocations that exist now,

But you still do have an issue if they where short rest?
Or should the long rest casting give in-combat flexibility?

the point of my idea in another thread was to have a mostly at-will warlock whose limited abilities were all opt-in.

So... Pact Magic is also opt-in (invocation) then?

 

[doctorbadwolf]

I mean, yes. evocative names are good.
But also your printing "at will, without expending a spell slot or material components." 13 times. That's a lot of page space taken up that could be used foe more invocations.

Maybe do both?

Pact Cantrip. Select one of the following. You gain a spell and can cast it at-will without spending material components.
Armor of Shadows: Mage Armor
Beast Speach: Speak with Animals
Ascendant Step (level 9): Levitate
...

I’m okay with the page space usage tbh.

But I also just prefer less “neat” game design, so I’m not surprised when my preferences aren’t shared around here.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

But you still do have an issue if they where short rest?
Or should the long rest casting give in-combat flexibility?

So... Pact Magic is also opt-in (invocation) then?

It’s a totally separate idea. If the player wants to be a “real” spellcaster, rather than just having a few daily powers that happen to be spells, they can play a normal warlock.

Edit: part of the idea is they gain 3 ritual tools over time, start with a familiar and ritual casting, and gain more at-will magic than anyone else, and make Eldritch Blast more malleable.

 

[mellored]

I’m okay with the page space usage tbh.

Quick count gives me 54 invocations
13 are at-will spells.
14 are long rest.

Consolidation would reduce page count by half. That's not just a few extra lines.

But I also just prefer less “neat” game design, so I’m not surprised when my preferences aren’t shared around here.

IMO, it's less about "neat" exactly, and more about how long it takes to read them. Signal to noise ratio.

And the less times I have to read the same thing, the more times I can spend playing the game.

I mean. Here. I'll copy it 13 times.

You can cast ... at will, without expending a spell slot.
You can cast ... at will, without expending a spell slot.
You can cast ... at will, without expending a spell slot.
You can cast ... at will, without expending a spell slot.
You can cast ... at will, without expending a spell slot.
You can cast ... at will, without expending a spell slot.
You can cast ... at will, without expending a spell slot.
You can cast ... at will, without expending a spell slot.
You can cast ... at will, without expending a spell slot.
You can cast ... at will, without expending a spell slot.
You can cast ... at will, without expending a spell slot.
You can cast ... at will, without expending a spell slot.
You can cast ... at will, without expending a spell slot.

I'll spare you the long rest ones.

 

[MechaTarrasque]

I respect this, but I’m glad it isn’t the design goal of the class as it is written now, because it’s not what I want from the class. It’s definitely one way to play the class, obviously, but all my warlocks since 3.5 have been people who break the rules of magic, hacking the code of arcane formulae, invoking and binding power into themselves and their tools, etc, and thier patron is either a mentor (usually with ambiguous personal goals and priorities) or a being they called into a circle of invocation and sacrificed something in exchange for the knowledge of how to bypass the structures and rules that bind other spellcasters.

"Magic hacker" is a great idea, but it is kind of crowded with the sorcerers who arguably have a better narrative fit and the arcane spell thieves who have the ideal mechanism for it (if your PC lives long enough to get it).

Given how often D&D creates (or recreates) new fiends, undead, aberrations, and even fey, "bad guy toys" seems like a sustainable design space for years if not decades to come (definitely better than the poor paladin would be if they were the "good guy toys" class that had to live off the slim pickings of new or recreated celestials).

 

[UngeheuerLich]

If you have a Spell prepared that has the Ritual tag, you can cast that Spellas a Ritual. A special feature is no longer required for Ritual casting.

Seems like that one will stick.

This alone makes the ranger a more likable class.
When I chose ritual caster for my rogue, I would have chosen ranger if that had been an option.