What's a good high-charisma build? Or, can Bards be useful?

[ConcreteBuddha]

So was this how you got +19?

+4 from Cha 18
+2 from half elf
+5 from ranks
+2 from negotiator
+2 bluff synergy
+2 knowledge: nobility synergy
+2 sense motive synergy
= +19

Yes.

I was sad the campaign imploded, too. Skill focus: Diplomacy at level 3 was going to be neat.

Whoa. You can, like, talk good. But what's your role in combat?

-z

You ask as if you have never used Presence or Dominate...
.
.
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At high levels, I would be a god. Literally.

One level of mindbender and a ring of invisibility: "The voices in my head tell me to stop attacking and help these poor, unfortunate adventurers."

 

[reapersaurus]

Beat me to it. I'm a big fan of Divine Might.

Well, if Hypersmurf's gonna chime in with postcount+1, I'll say,
"I'm a big fan of Divine Might, too."

'Course, Divine Shield is better, but much more expensive and limiting (in feats and equipment) to pull off easily.

 

[Hypersmurf]

'Course, Divine Shield is better, but much more expensive and limiting (in feats and equipment) to pull off easily.

Both, both! Divine Might and Divine Shield.

Then get your Mount an Animated Shield, and use the Tome and Blood rules for Share Spells (which allows you to Share Su abilities) to give your dire lion your Cha bonus to damage and to enhance his shield as well...

-Hyp.

 

[The Souljourner]

That's hilarious, HS. I'm guessing you can't shield bash with an animated shield, though... or can you? That would be pretty ridiculous (besides which, I hate the whole animated/dancing shield thing... too cheesy).

BTW, thanks for the fanfare back there

So I played my first bard in 3.x last night, and what do we go up against? A black pudding. Hrm.... and I forgot to bring a missile weapon.... foolish, foolish bard.

-The Souljourner

 

[Hypersmurf]

BTW, thanks for the fanfare back there

No, I meant the Brd-6 spell Fanfare, from Song and Silence

-Hyp.

 

[Avatar of the North]

Multiclassing Spellcasters = Suck. That's been true since 3rd edition came out and nothing has broken that rule. Ever.

Seems to me those Wizard 5/Pale master 1/Ur-priest 1/Contemplative 1/Mystic Theurge 9/(Arch mage or True Necromancer ) 3 are doing just fine to me with their 9th level arcane and 9th level divine spells. The true necromancer has a crazy caster level for necromancy or death domain spells (somethign in the area of caster level 37-39 for a 20th level character)

but as for Cha based characters. The following classes are nice for bonuses based on cha

Mystic Wander 1 - Glory of the Divine (Cha mod to ac as a sacred bonus)
Pirate of Freeport 1 - Reckless Abandon (Cha mod to ac as dodge bonus)
Arcane Dualist 2 - Apparent Defense (Cha mod to ac as an unnamed bonus)
Paladin 1 (2 in 3.5) - Divine Grace (cha mod to saves)
Soldier of Light 2 - Divine Grace (cha mod to saves)
Holy Liberator 2 - Divine Grace (cha mod to saves)
Witch Hunter 1 - Kami's Grace (Cha mod to saves)
Akodo Champion 2 - Ancestral Favor (Cha mod to saves)
Mysticism Domain (Prestige) - (Cha mod to saves)
Divine Might - spend turn attempt gain cha mod to dmg for cha mod rounds
Smite (something) -cha mod hit
--Akodo champion 2 - Smite Evil (Cha mod to hit, level to dmg)
--paladin smites
Iaijutsu Master 2 - Lightning Blade (Cha mod to init)

If you'd like the prereqs for any of those i'd be glad to dig that up as well.

Personally i'd find a Bard 10/Iaijutsu master 2 (or 5)/Paladin 3 (or when they get turn in 3.5)/Any class 5(or 2) to be interesting and crazy one that first hit due to Iaijutsu Focus+strike from the void.....no one ever said you had to STAY non-lawful as bards don't lose any abilities for becoming lawful

 

[Arkhandus]

A human or half-elf paladin/fighter/bard could be neat. Str 10, Dex 16, Con 10, Int 12, Wis 8, Cha 16 for a weapon-finesse rapier-wielding lightly-armored sort, or for a better-armored and large/medium-weapon-wielding sort go Str 16, Dex 8, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 8, Cha 16. Either way you'll have decent skill points, and saves due to Divine Grace. Start off paladin, until 3rd-level, leaning towards neutral good as you go, but only slightly. IC, start to think that the strict and stern path of the paladin might not quite be for you, that too many people suffer because the law is imperfect and innocents are slain or incarcerated, that sometimes being so absolutely firm in the law isn't always in the best interest of the greater good, and that too many corrupt people use the law to gain power at the sufferance of others. This drives you to leave the path of the paladin, and become a fighter at 4th and 5th level, finally making the shift to neutral good by 5th-level. Then multiclass to a bard at 6th, and continue on as a bard from that point, maybe gaining 1-2 more levels of fighter over time if you feel you need more combat power. You won't suffer any multiclassing penalties as a human or half-elf.

Either way, you'll have 4 attacks per round by 18th, 19th, or 20th level, and your combat power early on will offset your initially weak spellcasting. Your bard levels will allow you to use many different magic items well, and maybe even create some if needed, plus you could put a lotta ranks into Use Magic Device while your good Charisma boosts the skill a little bit further. Your good charisma will make Lay Hands, Divine Grace, and Turn Undead pretty decent while you build up your bardic repertoire of spells.

You'll be fairly useful early on and not as weak later like a pure bard would be, so you should be a good addition to the party overall, with good fighting skills early on (and still respectable fighting ability later) and good social skills, while possessing at least a mediocre number of skills and fairly good saving throws and resistances (ftr/pal give good Fortitude, bard gives good Reflex/Will, Divine Grace makes it all better on top of that, and if you're a half-elf you gain a bonus against Enchantment as well as immunity to Sleep, in addition to your nifty paladin immunities, and bardic music might even bolster your defense too).

 

[Gnome Berzerker]

If you want to do more role playing, I suggest a rogue. They have lots of charisma based skills. They also have a lot of opportunities to create role playing opportunities.

Talking your way out of incarceration can be fun.

What does your class have to do with any more or less roleplaying?

A human or half-elf paladin/fighter/bard could be neat. Str 10, Dex 16, Con 10, Int 12, Wis 8, Cha 16 for a weapon-finesse rapier-wielding lightly-armored sort, or for a better-armored and large/medium-weapon-wielding sort go Str 16, Dex 8, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 8, Cha 16. Either way you'll have decent skill points, and saves due to Divine Grace. Start off paladin, until 3rd-level, leaning towards neutral good as you go, but only slightly. IC, start to think that the strict and stern path of the paladin might not quite be for you, that too many people suffer because the law is imperfect and innocents are slain or incarcerated, that sometimes being so absolutely firm in the law isn't always in the best interest of the greater good, and that too many corrupt people use the law to gain power at the sufferance of others. This drives you to leave the path of the paladin, and become a fighter at 4th and 5th level, finally making the shift to neutral good by 5th-level. Then multiclass to a bard at 6th, and continue on as a bard from that point, maybe gaining 1-2 more levels of fighter over time if you feel you need more combat power. You won't suffer any multiclassing penalties as a human or half-elf.

I think once you stray from LG Alignment, you lose ALL Paladin abilities. I could be wrong, though. IDHMBIFOM.

 

[Gnome Berzerker]

double post

 

[Rolzup]

I'm playing a charisma-focused rogue right now, and I've gotta say: it's the most entertaining character I've ever had.

We're playing 3.0 at this point, but we're using some of the 3.5 feats and such. I probably would have gone with the Bard if I'd seen the revised version, but as it is? I'm quite happy.

He's a fourth level character right now, Rogue 2/Fighter 2, with a good +15 or so in Bluff and Diplomacy. Can't climb, open locks, disarm traps, or anything of the sort. He can sneak a little, but not well enough to stay out of trouble.

I've been leaning pretty heavily on the "Improved Feint" feat to allow him to hold his own in combat, but his main strength has been in avoiding combat altogether. He's talked the party out of trouble on a number of occasions, which helps to make up for his abject cowardice.

The current plan is to go for another two levels of Rogue, and then switch to a variant on the "Halfling Jobber" prestige class from a recent issue of Dragon. I'm calling it the "Scoundrel", and have made a few superficial changes, but it gives some fun social-style abilities. I mean really, how can you go wrong with "Favored Mark"?

What I would most like is some version of D20 Modern's "Charismatic Hero". That would have been 100% perfect for the character I wanted to play...but this version ain't bad at all, really.

Rolzup