When you want to strangle a player

[Zinovia]

Yes. That is why their holy symbol is a banana. I realize I have the wrong word and now I know why my players were snickering when I used it in the game.

You don't have the wrong word. Primate has long been used to designate a high-ranking church official. Check the link.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/primate

 

[Kraydak]

He attacked the bard after he told the bard to get out of his sight or he would charge him with impeding an officer of the law in his duty and the bard said and I quote "make me". The cleric of Heironeus was already backing away at that point so the situation was defusing. The cleric of St Cuthbert was being hostile but if the bard had walked away with the other cleric then the situation would have ended.

As a player I would still interpret this as a result of Unfriendly->Hostile. Which implies my result of an 18 got turned into a 4 or less. Being a (non-specialized) face an failing is one thing, 14 points of situational penalties that the PC cleric got to ignore is failure and embarrassment by DM fiat.

 

[Oryan77]

I do think part of this is happening because of Rich's real life issues. He has a lot of pressure in his real life. He hates his job and was looking for another one when his wife was diagnosed with glaucoma, she is going blind. Now because he has fantastic insurance he does not feel he can leave his job.

His dad has senile dementia and all that is being dumped on him. His mom is totally helpless she does not know how to drive. So now he has to drive her shopping to the doctors plus drive his wife to work and on all her errands amd drive his dad around.

I think it is because of feeling stressed out having to drive everywhere for three people it has become an issue in the game. We all knew when we started the game that the only way for Chris to play was to play at his house. It was a non issue.

I understand *everyone* has personal issues that they deal with everyday. But mankind needs to stop being babies and making everyone else around them deal with their crap. I'm sympathetic towards my friends with problems, but if they make me deal with grief because of their problems, I won't stand for that. I don't cause people around me grief just because I am dealing with stuff.

If you think these are reasons why he's being a pain to the D&D group, you should sincerely talk to him about it and ask him to leave his baggage at home. D&D should be a time for relaxation so you can escape the real world grind. There's no excuse for him to cause your group grief. If his life is so bad that he can't help causing people grief, he should stay at home until it's dealt with.

he really does not like the DnD system any of them. He likes the Hero system. So I know he gets frustrated with the game rules.

Second he likes to play characters that would be the hero of a book and I think lower level play and not being powerful right from the start frustrates him.

Again, "cater to me!" A D&D group can't always please everyone at the table. I don't understand why so many players cause problems over stupid things like not getting their way. If he doesn't like the system, then either keep quiet and make the most out of it, or leave the group. One of my players is the same way about wanting to play some powerful guy right away. But I mean, geez, go play Nintendo and enter the cheat codes if it's that important. I don't understand why players will go to the point to cause other players grief just because they don't get what they want. Why can't people just enjoy playing whatever they are playing and make it fun if they don't want to quit playing?

 

[Raven Crowking]

Elf Witch, IMHO you are absolutely right in the case you described.

"When I DM, I am in charge. I understand that the kind of game I am running is not necessarily the kind of game you want to play in, though, and if you choose not to play in it there will be no hard feelings on my part. However, if you want to play in this game, you need to respect my authority as DM. I would do the same for you."


RC

 

[Li Shenron]

I thought it was a good scene the bard had prevented the two from killing each other he got through to one of the clerics using his diplomacy and his skill at tripping prevented the other cleric from attacking the other cleric.

The player in question is upset he feels that his character was made to look like a fool. :\

The scene you described was definitely cool, and so was his PC.

He is also angry because as a bard with a high charisma diplomacy should have been able to handle everything.

That's just a typical bad gamer's bullsh*t.

He felt that since he was the bard he should have been the face of the party.

Not good attitude in my opinion. Anyway, if he wanted to be the face of the party (most of the times at least), he should have brought it up, and asked if the group was fine with seconding his wish. He shouldn't have simply assumed that just because of a high Cha he should automatically have that role, because that role has metagame implications.

The bard's player I think is having issues on the fact that that the bard is not as good in combat as the cleric or monk and the sorcerer is better at magic. So he feels that the cleric's player is stealing his thunder so to speak.

That one instead could be a good point... Maybe his character build has prooved ineffective in every situation. This is not necessarily his fault (we know that Bards don't have nearly as many options as other classes, and maybe the cleric is overpowered by its player), and he has indeed the right to be unsatisfied. If he's not having fun, the rest of the group should recognize it and discuss some solution.

Maybe it's time to make a new character (but let him keep the Bard for another campaign perhaps).

 

[bento]

Elf Witch - I think you did everything you could have and should have. It sounds like this player has a hard time sharing the spotlight with others. We all want to have our unique role in the group, but sometimes things just don't go our way. He is being unrealistic in asking you to nerf the cleric's charisma, as that was the player's choice for how to stat his abilities. And his request about gas money is petty and obsfucates the real issues.

With the additional information that the player is having personaly problems outside the game, you might consider asking him to take a couple sessions off. He may not realize that his outbursts are starting to ruin his good will with the group.

 

[LostSoul]

There are two seperate issues here. Game and real life. We have been friends for 23 years so I think I can get him to see the real life issues and why he is having it.

Why is it two seperate issues - don't you play the game in real life?

The game issue is one I am not sure how to handle. First of all he really does not like the DnD system any of them. He likes the Hero system. So I know he gets frustrated with the game rules.

Second he likes to play characters that would be the hero of a book and I think lower level play and not being powerful right from the start frustrates him.

I know he is basing his bard on a character from a book he read this bard traveled by himself. defeating bandits, evil wizards and a dragon. I think he is frustrated that the rules don't allow him to play this type of character.

My bet is that your player wants to play D&D to blow off some steam. Maybe the rest of you don't like to play that way and can't accomodate him. Part ways.

If you can accomodate him:
Give him challenges that aren't too hard. Lots of mooks to kill.
Let him rework his PC so that it's more effective where he wants it to be. (Synergy bonuses)
Give him magic items that boost his core niche.

It's not that your player is wrong, he's just frustrated with his game experience. Accept that you can be doing everything "right" and he will still be frustrated - in other words, no one's at fault here. Find out what kind of experience you all want and see if you can compromise if there's conflict.

 

[amethal]

You don't have the wrong word. Primate has long been used to designate a high-ranking church official. Check the link.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/primate

And incidentally, if they thought you meant the ape definition, humans are also primates. I hope between us we've managed to solve your problem.

Oh, the problem was the player

The way you've described it, you are clearly in right and your player is way in the wrong.

The unbelievable "gas money" complaint makes me wonder whether there is a deeper problem here.

 

[haakon1]

His total roll was an 18. I added a +2 for him being a non human to the modifiers for the cleric of St Cuthbert. I also added a +2 to both clerics because of the situation and the bard not being known to these two people.

The cleric rolled a 22 and was not subjected to the same modifiers because he is human, known to the clerics in question and right now has been appointed by the conclave of churches to investigate what has been happening.

He has authority in this situation and since both clerics are lawful good they responded to him.

I have not nerfed the bard. Unless of course you consider applying modifiers to situations to be nerfing.

I actually think the bard is getting a bit nerfed. The +2 to DC because you don't know the people is making it a bit too difficult. I don't assume Diplomacy only applies to people you know. Generally, to modify against a player, I feel like I should have a good, solid, consistent reason. "Don't know them" doesn't do it for me. Racial issues and situational modifiers (they are really pissed off) seem fine to me, and the situational modifier would apply to any character trying to calm them down (even the cleric).


Adding a -2 to the DC (or better, a +2 to the roll so the player's know about it and have a positive "gain") for the cleric character if he is well-known and liked by the people arguing, that make sense.

 

[Ipissimus]

Ok, this really does sound more like a case of real life stepping on the game's toes.

The situation you describe in game seems perfectly acceptable to me. +4 to a DC isn't anywhere near unreasonable particularly considering the people involved. I agree that two commoners arguing in the street approached by a stranger wouldn't give a penalty, but two judgemental clerics with superiority complexes are going to look down on this scruffy unknown... unless he has some sort of official rank and thus a reason for poking his nose in. Heck, from the sound of things, the Bard was lucky that the two lawful clerics didn't know him and his lawless behaviour.

I can understand the player's frustration, however, from two angles. One, I've played a bard before. It's one of the most disempowering roles in the whole game, since quite alot of the time the best thing you can do is boost the rest of the party and let them do all the cool stuff. It also sounds like this guy's under alot of pressure and worry... his wife is going BLIND, for christ's sake! A little compassion, people, please!

On the other hand, the player hasn't done alot to help himself either. From the sounds of things, he hasn't maxed out his Diplomacy score. Welcome to 3E, if it's not maxed out you might as well not have it. And he is playing a Bard... just about the only thing that makes the class fun and he hasn't maxed it out.

I can understand that this player right now needs to feel some measure of power and control over his environment. The situation in game has made him feel disempowered, which he is getting enough of in real life at the moment. Not that you did anything wrong, the dice and his own choices conspired against him.

I've got a few idea here that might help the situation.

1. Explain patiently that you can't nerf the Cleric and remain fair but you are open to retrofitting his character so that it is better (not a bad idea with any Bard, it's NOT for people who want to be a hero, it's for people who want to support others).

2. Note: I'm also in a situation where everyone comes around to my house to play. I don't have 3 kids and cleaning the house is still a bitch. Playing at this friend's house is a good and neighbourly thing to do. Now, I'd suggest extending some of that neighbourlyness to THE DUDE WHO'S WIFE IS GOING BLIND. I suggest excusing him from driving and don't use his car. It's the decent and compassionate thing to do, the guy is driving all the time, busting his hump trying to care for his family. The least you can do, as a friend, is drive him for half an hour every now and again.

3. Throw in some encounters where the Bard can shine, maybe an item or two for him. I understand that the limitations presented to you by being at this point in the campaign but this is an extraordinary circumstance.

4. If he remains intractable, suggest that his limited time might be better spent taking care of himself and his family rather than playing a game. I'm honestly amazed at this guy's fortitude in not quitting the game with everything going on in his life. It would be a shame if he quit, if he does in fact enjoy the game so much that he chooses to spend his limited free time it might be one of his few outlets of release right now, which is what's making him inappropriately cranky.

5. Let him know that there are people on ENworld praying for him and his family, and give him our best wishes.