Who's on first? (Forked Thread: [WotC_Logan] Why is Tiamat Huge?)

[Imaro]

Quoted for EPIC truth. I'll repeat what a previous poster did...

If you do use the minis, Wizards has done you a favor.

If you don't use minis, you can change Tiamat to gargantuan size to very slim mechanical difference.

If you're really offended that Wizards would make the Queen of dragons smaller than another dragon, than the queen of anything should be bigger than it's dominion, right? Always? There's no argument to be made that in a mythological (or even natural) beast, the females are sometimes indeed smaller than the males?

Having a single stat block have a single word that means that a single god is a single square less wide than she should be (which is completely up for debate) in a single module... is not in any way grounds that Wizards is taking precedence for their minis game over the role playing game.

And if they were money-grubbing bastards, they would make her gargantuan and make you buy a new mini. But they didn't. Damn them... I guess.

....ok. now I get what your... dude, what? No, I don't get the point of this at all. Didn't they come out and say consideration for minis was exactly why the size choice was made?

 

[Wonka]

It also really does suck that the most powerful dragon in the game isn't also the largest dragon in the game....I mean come the heck on!

I have to disagree here. By purely personal standards, I think the smaller leader surrounded by much larger minions is WAY more intimidating. What did that little guy (or girl) have to do to get such LARGE creatures to follow them around? Like in BioShock, those Little Sisters are that much more creepy because they have the Big Daddy's following them around. Personal preference I suppose

As far as the issue on hand about Tiamat, probably not surprising giving my previous response, but I think its pretty sweet for the most powerful dragon in the game NOT to be the largest. Makes you think twice about things, IMO.

 

[pawsplay]

Looks like game is winning, 100% to.... 11.7%? That doesn't quite add up.

 

[Wootz]

It would've been cool if tiamat could be a ginormous figure, but then again I don't see why you can't just improvise (changing the rules to fit your game is half of the appeal, isn't it?)

BIG FREAKIN EDIT!!!: Oh, forgot um, I think game comes before miniatures, but if miniatures supplement the game there's no reason not to make them cool.

 

[I'm A Banana]

As far as the issue on hand about Tiamat, probably not surprising giving my previous response, but I think its pretty sweet for the most powerful dragon in the game NOT to be the largest. Makes you think twice about things, IMO.

I'd probably have less of a problem with it if it was somehow justified.

But Plastic Logic was the only reason I could see, and the only reason given, so...slightly larger problem.

 

[Wonka]

I'd probably have less of a problem with it if it was somehow justified.

But Plastic Logic was the only reason I could see, and the only reason given, so...slightly larger problem.

Totally valid point I was talking in generalities anyway. I also agree game design should influence the minis, not the other way around.

 

[justanobody]

I voted both, because I could.

I feel that your question is leading. Given the context of the question, it's obvious that the majority of posters will vote for "minis made to suit the game", so what are you expecting your results to show?

I think this poll is just an excuse to make value judgements about a perfectly legitimate and reasonable decision on WotC's part.

(And FWIW, I would've preferred Tiamat to be huge. I still don't approve of blatantly flawed surveys.)

The question is not leading because you were about to vote for both, or neither.

All 4 options are there. Those that don't care can vote both or neither, and those that do care can vote for the one they think should have highest priority in game/mini design.

I am expecting the results to show what the people who choose to vote from ENWorld prefer.

A: minis should be made to suit the rules of the game
B: the game should be made around the minis
C: doesn't matter

Everyone who votes has their vote displayed, so you can view them and see my choice as the poll initiator. There is nothing to hide in my opinion.

As KM stated, it is a design philosophy question based around the quote in the first post. Had that post not been made, this poll/thread would not exist from myself.

Also the poll has little to do with WotC, and probably shouldn't even have D&D as the prefix, but reflex had me add it so it did NOT be focused on any one edition.

It could apply to any and ALL RPGs, or games that are not dependant on minis, but minis are used by a large number of people.

Of course, Warhammer probably has the rules mad AFTER the minis and only a rough idea of the mini size is had, and still nothing of the mini design will alter the rules as the rules are updated all the time for Warhammer, and even older OOP minis are legal that do not match the newest rules written.

So as the quoted person brought the thought about the poll asks the simple question.

Should a games rules be built around existing accessories of the game, or should the rules be designed without regard for existing or possible future accessories, and then any accessories can be made in the future to comply to those rules if that is the intent of the minis design.

If you feel somehow offended by the poll after being able to vote for both options to show you have no preference, then what option do you feel was missing to allow you to have properly voted?

It also doesn't matter what the majority of voters will say, as the predictions like that can often be wrong. Thus my morbid curiosity to see who else felt like the person whose post spurred this forked thread.

I was thinking the same thing!

Sorry guys! I did not mean to tease. I recall on SOME website out there someone WAS in fact taking the chromatic dragons and building Tiamat, but the problem came up when the green dragon would not be made. I think another was painted green in its place to complete the conversion, but cannot for the life of me remember the website.

I was not sure at the time how the giant red neck and head would look beside the other ones, so did not even bookmark the site, so apologize for getting peoples hopes up.

Looks like game is winning, 100% to.... 11.7%? That doesn't quite add up.

100% of the voters chose game, and 10.8% chose minis.

That means 10.8% of the voters have currently chose both, or a stance of it doesn't really matter.

37/37 at the time of this posting voted for game which is 1 or 100%

4/37 at the time of this posting voted for minis which gives you .108 or 10.8%

It is the way the forums score polls based on multiple choice answers based on how many people have voted, rather than comparing the poll options against each other which would be

37/41 and 4/41 to get only 100% combined by the two choices.

Unless you did not mean add up based ont he math, but think it odd that more people are voting for game having preference in design to minis?

 

[Holy Bovine]

The Tiamat mini that is already made is way bigger than a standard huge. Seriously that thing overshoots its base worse than the huge white dragon. Tiamat is Gargantuan my games (and nothing is colassal).

 

[Charwoman Gene]

Clearly the answer you seek is for WotC to conceal info and lie to you. This is just silly.

 

[Serendipity]

Game before minis. If the minis are what the rules are based around then, hey, guess what, you're playing a miniatures game.
Understand, I do not hate 4e, but some of the decisions WotC has made leading up to and since releasing it make Absolutely No Sense to me.