Why Knock Someone Prone Anymore?

[Kesh]

The dissonance, at least for me, is that you can attack an opponent three squares away if you charge, but you can't attack an opponent two squares away. Somehow, moving a shorter distance makes it impossible for you to make a melee attack at the end of your movement?

Alternatively, I'd allow the character to charge, but he wouldn't get the attack bonus if he doesn't move two or more squares.

It's not that you can't attack, it's that you haven't moved far enough for a Charge to be effective.

 

[Mort_Q]

Somehow, moving a shorter distance makes it impossible for you to make a melee attack at the end of your movement?

Moving a shorter distance doesn't all the build up the speed to have the inertia to gain the bonus.

If you have the movement, you can back up and take a run at 'em! [edit] or maybe not... weird [/edit]

 

[SuperGnome]

Standing up doesn't provoke an OA, as not all move actions do. If you move out of your square doing anything other than a shift, THEN you suffer the OA.

 

[Rith the Wanderer]

Don't forget that a prone flying enemy is a falling flying enemy. Now obviously you aren't going to be smacking him prone unless you are jimmy the flying fighter, but at epic levels (when some 60% of enemies have a fly speed) this is actually fairly likely.

On another note, it seems silly to "stand up" while falling (if you are falling an incredibly long distance and take more than one turn to fall, this could be necessary). What do you guys think on this?

 

[Arabesu]

Don't forget that a prone flying enemy is a falling flying enemy. Now obviously you aren't going to be smacking him prone unless you are jimmy the flying fighter, but at epic levels (when some 60% of enemies have a fly speed) this is actually fairly likely.

On another note, it seems silly to "stand up" while falling (if you are falling an incredibly long distance and take more than one turn to fall, this could be necessary). What do you guys think on this?

Yes except that wizards can knock someone, many targets actually, prone at first level at range 10: Icy Terrain.

It doesn't specifically say so, but there is NO mechanical reason why it shouldn't work against a flier. Of course, your GM may rule that the power's intent, i.e. icy ground, prevents it from working unless the opponents are standing on the ground, but RAW that would be a houserule.

 

[Nine Hands]

One of my players made a dwarven fighter and took the exploit Spinning Sweep. He was excited. It was a tactic he used often in 3E, knocking foes prone.

When we reached our first battle he knocked a kobold prone. When it got up he asked, "Don't I get an Opportunity Attack on it?" He emphasized the correct usage of the free attack.

I looked it up. It doesn't say anything about OAs against targets standing up. So I said no.

He looked at me and said, "Then what good is it?"

I'm here to ask the same question. Could it be that being able to move in combat now is so important that just being knocked prone is enough of a penalty that an AO is overkill? Besides slowing your opponent why would you want to waste an encounter exploit on it?

Cuz its fun to curb stomp people.

 

[Makaze]

It doesn't specifically say so, but there is NO mechanical reason why it shouldn't work against a flier. Of course, your GM may rule that the power's intent, i.e. icy ground, prevents it from working unless the opponents are standing on the ground, but RAW that would be a houserule.

One could easily argue that the "terrain" is the air and it knocks them prone because of the ice forming on wings, weighing down floating enemies etc. I'd allow it.

 

[frankthedm]

He looked at me and said, "Then what good is it?"

Those word are often spoken by a player when sanity is being restored to something borken.

I'm here to ask the same question. Could it be that being able to move in combat now is so important that just being knocked prone is enough of a penalty that an AO is overkill?

Always has been. Used to be you were giving your aliies +4 to hit in melee and costing your foe his movement. It was broken in 3.5 by also forcing the AOO. Now it is only +2, but it also triggers combat advantage effects.

 

[JohnSnow]

Can't they still Charge, though? Standard action, move your full speed and attack with a bonus?

Well, unless I missed something in the rules, it is perfectly legal for you to Shift (Move action), and then Charge (Standard action). That is, assuming that the Shift puts you 2 squares away.

 

[Malk]

Except that you are starting prone. Stand up (move action) Shift (move action) Charge (standard action) doesn't work. Unless your a Kobold that is.