Why modern movies suck - they teach us awful lessons

[billd91]

This stuff is hard to track. On a quick search the first on air lesbian kiss was 1991 on LA Law (but even that is hard to track depending on how you define it because I think Howard Stern might have beat them by a year if you are including stuff that isn't fictional; and 21 Jump Street had an episode where they cut away from the kiss but it happened). The movies is a different story, there was a same sex kiss as early as 1922 (and in film it seems like it waxed and waned over the decades depending on sensibilities).

One of the important aspects of these events as milestones in representation is that television has (or at least had) a very different reach than most other forms of media. Gay/lesbian kisses in movies aren't necessarily expected to be mainstream, even a big blockbuster isn't going to attract everyone to come see it in the theaters, while network television is broadcast and assumed to be available for most people's homes barring remoteness or urban reception issues where most people probably had some basic cable. Historically, that made anything that happened on a major network (or even widely syndicated) a much bigger deal.

 

[Bedrockgames]

One of the important aspects of these events as milestones in representation is that television has (or at least had) a very different reach than most other forms of media. Gay/lesbian kisses in movies aren't necessarily expected to be mainstream, even a big blockbuster isn't going to attract everyone to come see it in the theaters, while network television is broadcast and assumed to be available for most people's homes barring remoteness or urban reception issues where most people probably had some basic cable. Historically, that made anything that happened on a major network (or even widely syndicated) a much bigger deal.

Airwaves are also regulated by the FCC, so fines were always a potential issue any time shows pushed boundaries

 

[Bedrockgames]

One of the important aspects of these events as milestones in representation is that television has (or at least had) a very different reach than most other forms of media.

One thing that occurred to me, is I think in these discussions, some of the cynicism around this stuff that comes from people in my age group (Gen X) is often misinterpreted to mean we are against advances or against representation. But a lot of times what we are critiquing is making this a priority in art, and making the priority in advancement be done through media. And we are also critiquing how powerful corporations frequently invoke these kinds of social issues, or how media companies will pat themselves on the back for taking progressive stands, when they are engaged in all kinds of nefarious activity globally. John Stewart had a pretty good segment that I think captured a lot of our thinking on it some time ago where he would show a clip from a socially conscious movie, and after his commentary would be "And it was never an issue again after that." (Something to that effect). Movies and shows can raise awareness, but they can also distract us from more substantive change, and distract us from economic disparities. Personally I like seeing diverse stories, seeing stories that deal with important issues, but I also am a little suspicious when Disney starts going down a check list for the US audience on what to include, but edits out the same things from that check list for audiences in other countries.

 

[Ryujin]

I think it's interesting that people gloss over the fairly numerous examples of Star Trek being progressive in terms of gender identity (after all, the Trill explicitly had hosts of varying genders) or through allegory (Data's trial) ... and yet complain about more recent representations (for example, Adira on Discovery) as somehow being "Not Trek."

Perhaps it's that the times have moved on, and people haven't? I honestly don't know.

Star Trek has always been leading the curve with representation. As for "Discovery" I wasn't put off by the representation, but rather thought it was subjectively bad and didn't feel like Star Trek to me. Anyone else? Fill yer boots. IDIC is fine with me and if "Sense8" didn't put me off (I enjoyed the hell out of it), then nothing that Star Trek does in the same vein is going to.

In fairness we all knew what that episode was about when it came out.

I think that "The Orville" did a better job with the idea, without defaulting to the crew bonking aliens.

 

[Bedrockgames]

I think that "The Orville" did a better job with the idea, without defaulting to the crew bonking aliens.

Bonking aliens is part of what made Star Trek great

I still haven't seen the Orville though

 

[Bedrockgames]

Star Trek has always been leading the curve with representation. As for "Discovery" I wasn't put off by the representation, but rather thought it was subjectively bad and didn't feel like Star Trek to me.

My reaction to previews was similar. Michelle Yeoh is one of my favorite actresses, and I loved Sonequa Martin-Green in the Walking Dead. So I was interested when I heard they were involved. But when I saw the way it was shot: it just looked more like it was aimed at a younger audience (I am like slow moving space hotel star trek). That and I don't like that every single outlet started doing a streaming service. I just can't do a monthly fee to see one show.

 

[Ryujin]

Bonking aliens is part of what made Star Trek great

I still haven't seen the Orville though

One of the main characters in "The Orville", Lt. Commander Bortus, is from an all male society. His husband and son are also on board. Like The Enterprise "D", there are entire families on board. His race are also capable of digesting almost literally any kind of matter but that only comes up rarely, as a joke.

 

[Ryujin]

My reaction to previews was similar. Michelle Yeoh is one of my favorite actresses, and I loved Sonequa Martin-Green in the Walking Dead. So I was interested when I heard they were involved. But when I saw the way it was shot: it just looked more like it was aimed at a younger audience (I am like slow moving space hotel star trek). That and I don't like that every single outlet started doing a streaming service. I just can't do a monthly fee to see one show.

I gave it the usual 3 episodes that I give any new series, before deciding if I'm writing it off. It took considerable time to go back fro that third episode though.

 

[Bedrockgames]

I gave it the usual 3 episodes that I give any new series, before deciding if I'm writing it off. It took considerable time to go back fro that third episode though.

If it hadn't been behind a paywall, I would have watched some episodes to see. But I just find justifying that expense harder in recent years

 

[Bedrockgames]

One of the main characters in "The Orville", Lt. Commander Bortus, is from an all male society. His husband and son are also on board. Like The Enterprise "D", there are entire families on board. His race are also capable of digesting almost literally any kind of matter but that only comes up rarely, as a joke.

That is pretty in keeping with star trek logic which sounds good (Klingons were introduced as an alien race in the original series, but in the Next Generation, you have a Klingon serving aboard the ship). Do you think they were intentionally referencing the Next Generation episode with this character?