Ye olde classic unarmed strike/natural weapon question.

[LordVyreth]

I'm sure this one has been asked a lot, but I haven't had to deal with it as a DM an a 3.5 environment yet, and it may come up soon. What's the official ruling on how monks can use natural attacks? Are they completely incompatible with the unarmed strike damage and flurry of blows, or can some of them officially be used as secondary attacks? What's the official ruling, and have you done it at all differently?

 

[Felix]

Your optimism that this topic will not end in a chorus of flames and moderators is inspiring.

 

[kaomera]

I'm sure this one has been asked a lot, but I haven't had to deal with it as a DM an a 3.5 environment yet, and it may come up soon. What's the official ruling on how monks can use natural attacks? Are they completely incompatible with the unarmed strike damage and flurry of blows, or can some of them officially be used as secondary attacks? What's the official ruling, and have you done it at all differently?

This is a contentious issue: AFAIK there is no comprehensive official ruling.

IMC: "Unarmed strike" (as used in the flurry rules and elsewhere in the Monk class description) is a special natural attack gained by Monks. As such, other natural attacks do not qualify for flurry, but the Monk could mix his unarmed strikes with other natural attacks in a round where she did not flurry. The natural attack would deal normal damage, not unarmed strike damage, and have any other effects it normally would. This is, as far as I am concerned, a house-ruling; I am not attempting (nor do I care to) to "correctly" interpret RAW, in this specific instance.

 

[Iku Rex]

What's the official ruling on how monks can use natural attacks?

See the official FAQ: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/er/20030221a

 

[glass]

See the official FAQ: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/er/20030221a

Many here (including myself) don't consider the FAQ to be worth the (virtual) paper it is printed on.

IMO, you can use natural attacks as secondary to normal unarmed strikes, just like you can use them as secondary to any other weapon. You cannot use them in a flurry because they are not special monk weapons.

I believe the FAQ disagrees with me (and by extension, IMO, the PHB) on the seond point.


glass.

 

[glass]

This is a contentious issue: AFAIK there is no comprehensive official ruling.

IMC: "Unarmed strike" (as used in the flurry rules and elsewhere in the Monk class description) is a special natural attack gained by Monks. As such, other natural attacks do not qualify for flurry, but the Monk could mix his unarmed strikes with other natural attacks in a round where she did not flurry. The natural attack would deal normal damage, not unarmed strike damage, and have any other effects it normally would. This is, as far as I am concerned, a house-ruling; I am not attempting (nor do I care to) to "correctly" interpret RAW, in this specific instance.

Interestingly, despite your protestations to the contrary, your take on mixing unarmed strikes with natural weapons is correct RAW IMO.

Limiting unarmed strikes to monks only, and making them natural attacks, would obviously be house-rules. But from your conclusion it doesn't sound like you are really doing that.


glass.

 

[Klaus]

If the unarmed stikr is your main weapon, you can use your natural weapons as secondary attacks, attacking at -5. You can flurry with your unarmed strike, and still use your natural weapons as secondary attacks, taking the usual -5 penalty and an additional -2 for the flurry.

 

[Iku Rex]

IMO, you can use natural attacks as secondary to normal unarmed strikes, just like you can use them as secondary to any other weapon. You cannot use them in a flurry because they are not special monk weapons.

I believe the FAQ disagrees with me (and by extension, IMO, the PHB) on the second point.

No, it doesn't. However, the FAQ does say that you can use secondary natural attacks in addition to a flurry. Which is not disallowed by the PHB. (And allowed by the rules for mixing manufactured and natural weapons.)

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

I'm sure this one has been asked a lot, but I haven't had to deal with it as a DM an a 3.5 environment yet, and it may come up soon. What's the official ruling on how monks can use natural attacks? Are they completely incompatible with the unarmed strike damage and flurry of blows, or can some of them officially be used as secondary attacks? What's the official ruling, and have you done it at all differently?

An unarmed strike is treated by the rules (in nearly all cases) as a manufactured weapon.

Thus, like any other manufactured weapon, it can be mixed with natural weapons following the rules on mixing them (chiefly, natural weapons become secondary, taking a -5 penalty on attack rolls and applying only x.5 Str bonus to damage). The only important difference between a creature with a sword and a bite and a creature with an unarmed strike and a bite is flavor text. In fact, if he wanted to, the creature with the sword and the bite could use TWF rules to attack with his sword and his US (which every creature has), and then use his bite, anyway.

Monks have a special ability called Flurry of Blows. FoB requires you to take the Full Attack action and then modifies it, just like Whirlwind Attack does. WWA lets you make 1 attack at your highest BAB against each opponent within reach. To do so, you give up any bonus or extra attacks you might otherwise be entitled to (TWF, Cleave, Haste, etc.).

FoB gives you one or more extra attacks at your highest BAB (possibly with a penalty) in addition to allowing you to make your normal Full Attack routine. To do so, you give up the ability to use any weapon other than an unarmed strike or special monk weapon. Natural weapons - claws, bites, tailslaps, etc. - are not on the list as special monk weapons. Accordingly, during the Full Attack action in which the monk is benefitting from FoB, he or she may not use natural weapons. Similarly, a monk may not use both FoB and TWF with a dagger; the dagger is not a special monk weapon.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

However, the FAQ does say that you can use secondary natural attacks in addition to a flurry.

... which is, frankly, ridiculous and disallowed by the PHB.

Otherwise, they'd have to rule that I can make a Whirlwind Attack, and then use my Cleave and TWF bonus attacks in addition to the WWA. Does anyone allow that?