"Weenie List" of Ubiquitous & Popular Magic Items

After DM'ing 3E for over a year now, I've accumulated a list of ubiquitous magic items that are popular among min-max'ers and powergamers, calling it the "Weenie List". Some of the items on this list include...

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Keen Enchantment (Wow! Double my threat range for only a +1 market price! Combine with the Improved Critical feat, and I'm s-sssmokin'!)

Energy Enchantment (A whole d6 damage bonus for only a +1 market price. Now that's a cost-efficient enchantment!)

Mithral Shirt (Heh! Chain shirt is already the most unbalanced and saught-after armor in 3E D&D -- now it's even more so by having it available in mithral, for a mere 1100 gps! Sweet!)

Mithral Shield (Should I go with a greatsword? Or a bastardsword and a mithral large shield? Hmm... Let me work it both ways, here in my Excel spreadsheet... )

Boots of Striding and Leaping (To be combined with the Spring Attack feat, of course. Great for barbarians and rogues! Hope my DM hasn't read the errata that raises the price of this magic item. But even if he has, the boots are more than worth it!)

Gloves of +2 Dexterity or Gauntlets of Ogre Power (Alas, I can only wear one or the other, so which one will it be? Hmm... Back to the spreadsheet... )

Ring of Jumping (Doesn't stack with the boots, but the +30 jump bonus the ring gives is worth the mere 2000 gps it costs -- especially when combined with Spring Attack! Anyway, I want the boots more for the double movement ability.)

+1 Ring of Protection (Stacks with everything else, listed above. And it's real cheap, too!)

+1 Amulet of Natural Armor (Ditto!)

+1 Cloak of Resistance (+1 to all my saving throws for a mere 1000 gps. Not bad!)

Eyes of the Eagle (+5 bonus to Spot checks, which tends to be one of the most often used checks in the game, for a mere 1000 gps. Awesome!)

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What interesting about this particular list of magic items is that, individually, they aren't powerful and unbalancing. (Well, the Eyes probably are, and the Boots definitely are.) But when you stack them all together on a single person (and they are all stackable!), look out! Best of all, most of these items are pretty cheap (1000-2000 gps each).

I've got to disagree with you on the Keen edge bonus. If you took the +1 instead, your average damage is generally better than with the keen. Of course, it depends on the weapon, but for most weapons, it isn't worth it.

Mistwell said:

I've got to disagree with you on the Keen edge bonus. If you took the +1 instead, your average damage is generally better than with the keen. Of course, it depends on the weapon, but for most weapons, it isn't worth it.

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Right, it depends on which weapon and/or feats you combine it with. But that's what min-max'ing and powergaming is all about!

I find that keen is only worth it if you have improved critical, or a vorpal blade.

Nasma said:

I find that keen is only worth it if you have improved critical, or a vorpal blade.

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And your point is... ?

Consider the following: You have a fighter 8th with Str 18. This gives him an Attack Bonus +12/+7 and a damage bonus +4. Give him Gauntlets of Ogre Power, and now he has a Str 22, an Attack Bonus +14/+9, and a Damage Bonus +6 (+9 two-handed). Give him a Keen falchion, along with the Improved Critical and Weapon Specialization feats, and now he has a weapon with an Attack Bonus +15/+10, a 13-20 threat range, and a critical that inflicts 4d4+22! (And if that isn't enough already, you can combine this with the Power Attack feat to get a godly damage bonus!) And this with two magic items that, together, cost only 6,000 gps -- 2,000 gps less than the cost of a +2 weapon!

For 6,000 gps more, we can add an energy enchantment (Flaming or Frost) to the fighter's falchion, making it a +2 weapon. (Total cost for his two "weenie" magic items: 12,000 gps -- still less than half an 8th level character's starting wealth.) Now, even when he doesn't roll within his exceptional threat range, he still inflicts 2d4+d6+11 damage!

My favorite weenie item was a Keen Vorpal Scimitar in the hands of a ranger with Improved Critical and the feat that increases your critical against your favored enemy (which is Humans- he's evil). That's threatens a crit on a die roll of 11+ I believe, and then the vorpal effect....

His nickname is Daisy Cutter. Of course, he's spent alot of energy to fight just one race. It's still amusing.

Azlan said:

And your point is... ?

Consider the following: You have a fighter 8th with Str 18. This gives him an Attack Bonus +12/+7 and a damage bonus +4. Give him Gauntlets of Ogre Power, and now he has a Str 22, an Attack Bonus +14/+9, and a Damage Bonus +6 (+9 two-handed). Give him a Keen falchion, along with the Improved Critical and Weapon Specialization feats, and now he has a weapon with an Attack Bonus +15/+10, a 13-20 threat range, and a critical that inflicts 4d4+22! (And if that isn't enough already, you can combine this with the Power Attack feat to get a godly damage bonus!) And this with two magic items that, together, cost only 6,000 gps -- 2,000 gps less than the cost of a +2 weapon!

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How do you work that out? A Keen Falchion costs at least 8000gp.

Anyway, even with all that stuff, a +2 weapon is still better (for average damage, not to mention vs DR or crit-immune creatures) than a +1 Keen weapon.

Geoff.

Azlan said:

As a DM, I have created a list of ubiquitous magic items that are popular among min-max'ers and powergamers, calling it the "Weenie List". Some of the items on this list include...

- - - - - - - - - - - -

Keen Enchantment (Wow! Double my threat range for only a +1 market price! Combine that with the Improved Critical feat, and I'm really smokin'!)

Keen is only good if you have something special on a crit, like Vorpal. Otherwise, an extra +1 is better.

Energy Enchantment (A whole d6 damage bonus for only a +1 market price. Now that's a cost-efficient enchantment!)

That's a bit iffy. An extra +1 is often better, but it is still really good.

Mithral Shirt (Heh! Chain shirt is already the most unbalanced and sought-after armor in 3E D&D -- now it's even more so by having it available in mithral, for a mere 1100 gps! Sweet!)

Boots of Striding and Leaping (To be combined with the Spring Attack feat, of course. Great for barbarians and rogues! Hope my DM hasn't read the errata that raises the price of this magic item. But even if he has, the boots are more than worth it!)

Gloves of +2 Dexterity or Gauntlets of Ogre Power (Alas, I can only wear one or the other, so I'll have to choose one. But which? Hmm... This Excel spreadsheet is becoming more and more useful in my decision-making process... )

+1 Ring of Protection (Stacks with everything else, listed above. And it's real cheap, too!)

+1 Amulet of Natural Armor (Ditto!)

+1 Cloak of Resistance (+1 to all my saving throws for a mere 1000 gps -- not bad!)

Eyes of the Eagle (+5 bonus to Spot checks, which tends to be one of the most often used checks in the game, for a mere 1000 gps. Awesome!)

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These are all really good, even with the errata to increase the cost of Boots of S&S.
Most of the PC in my group have most of these items, (except for the Eyes, they have either missed that or have other eye-slot items).

Geoff.

The Keen vs. bonus argument is dependent on how much base damage you inflict, the ACs of your opponent, and the possibility of DR.

In most cases, and when applied to 'best crit' items (x4 or 18-20/x2), it effectively scales the amount of damage you do by 3/40 (assuming a 50/50 chance of confirming threats). Thus, if you do an average damage of 13.03 or more, then Keen is better than bonus in terms of sheer damage-dishing capabilities. Thus, a Keen Falchion in the hands of a raging half-orc barbarian is a great asset.
This does not take into account the impact of 'to hit', however, and assuming 50/50 chances of hitting, a +1 to hit effectively increases damage by 10%. Thus, average damage will need to be 14.3 or greater to make Keen the stronger weapon.
However, this is counter-balanced by the 'more damage in one hit' effect. This effect is basically the theory that inflicting more damage in a single hit is more effective than an identical amount of damage in multiple hits- both in terms of time-saving and the fact that most clerics heal comrades when they reach below a certain HP threshold. The numerical value for this is hard to quantify.

For all these, though, the parable is identical. Big, high-damage weapons with big threat ranges (falchion, mercurial greatsword and the like) are better off Keen. Smaller, low-damage weapons (dagger etc.) are better with a flat +1 bonus.

Geoff Watson said:

How do you work that out? A Keen Falchion costs at least 8000gp.

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Hmm. Am I calculating it wrong? Keen is only a +1 enchantment, which costs 2000 gps. (Keen and Flaming/Frost would be a +2 enchantment, total, raising the cost to 8000 gps.)

Oh. I forgot to add the +375 gps for the falchion itself. So that brings the cost up to 2375. Is this correct?