D&D should go point based!

The hate for this should amaze me, yet it doesn't.

Ogrork the Mighty said:

Rolling ability scores is a sacred cow of D&D.

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I haven't been in or ran a random ability scores game in years. One man's sacred cow is another man's quarter pounder with cheese.

The Human Target said:

The hate for this should amaze me, yet it doesn't.

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Why? People play the games they like. If they liked point based games, they would play them. People are funny that way.

Crothian said:

Why? People play the games they like. If they liked point based games, they would play them. People are funny that way.

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Its one thing to disagree with point buy. I myself have yet to be really happy with any system I've seen. But the utter venom in people's responses is a bit much. And saying D&D needs to be a certain set way is just pointless. Its a game of imagination, not of sacred cow rules.

Mostly I think that it comes down to the fact that there already plenty of points based games out there, changing D&D into one really isn't necessary. (Exalted comes to mind for fantasy.) It is a niche that does not really need exploiting.

Mind you Blue Rose is points based, and interests me, but it does not claim to be D&D.

The Auld Grump

The Human Target said:

Its one thing to disagree with point buy. I myself have yet to be really happy with any system I've seen. But the utter venom in people's responses is a bit much. And saying D&D needs to be a certain set way is just pointless. Its a game of imagination, not of sacred cow rules.

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But its not just D&D. Go over to White wolf boards and suggest altering their game, or over to the Hero Boards and do the same. You'll get people who argue and hate that to. Plus since this is the internet, start a thread on loving air, and you'll get people that hate it. Gamers are particular and protective about their gaming systems, and people on the internet hate things.

Crothian said:

But its not just D&D. Go over to White wolf boards and suggest altering their game, or over to the Hero Boards and do the same. You'll get people who argue and hate that to. Plus since this is the internet, start a thread on loving air, and you'll get people that hate it. Gamers are particular and protective about their gaming systems, and people on the internet hate things.

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Oh, I totally agree with you. I just don't think the idea of point based DnD will lead to the destruction of kittens and the free world.

I'm interested in character customization, reagrdless of how I get it.

Jürgen Hubert said:

D&D shouldn't go point-based. For me, the level-and-class system is the whole point of D&D (pardon the pun).

There are already plenty of very good point buy systems out there, like GURPS and Mutants and Masterminds - both of which I also play regularly.

But when I play D&D, I expect levels and classes. If you don't have levels and classes, then why bother playing D&D?

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I have played GURPS in the past, and have enjoyed it. The downside to GURPS is the enemy creation process. As if stat blocks for your key NPC are really really bad, try statting out a villain in GURPS! To be fair, if you are playing a fantasy game using GURPS, there is a lot less work involed than other genres.

The d20 system is by far a more manageable system than the 3d6, lowest wins concept of GURPS. GURPS, to me, is a far more mathematical system than d20, and unless you're a decent number cruncher, a lot of GURPS stuff will fly right over your head.

That's why I get so irked when I read the BESM d20 manual. They are 80% point buy, but then slap on 'classes' and 'levels' in addition to your points. Plus, if you want just a generic "make it as you go" character, you are penalized with a d4 hit die. Makes perfect sense to me...

One idea to adopt d20 into point buy is to allow XP to be converted into character points. There is a rule for it somewhere in the BESM d20 book, but IDHTBIFOM. The only difficulty would be gaining more HP/HD... which of course could be changed with a WP/VP style layout.

I dunno, sometimes I wish that DnD weren't class-built, and sometimes I wish I could expand my character in any direction I choose. I just don't like waiting for level after level when I *could* have the char I want straight away.