Lycanthropes

Joachim Pieper · Sep 16, 2005

If I am a lycanthrope, what happens to my magical kit when I change form?

Does it change with me, because items like rings and amulets adjust to the size of the wearer?

Does it meld into my new form?

Or does it all come splintering off, broken and now a pile of expensie junk?

If I am a weretiger, and using a ring of invisibility to be invisible, say, do I stay invisible when I change into my hybrid form from my human form?

Any help clearing this lot up would be appreciated...

Cheers.

glass · Sep 16, 2005

Joachim Pieper said:
If I am a lycanthrope, what happens to my magical kit when I change form? Does it change with me, because items like rings and amulets adjust to the size of the wearer?

Depends. The section about jewellery resizing is talking about the long term found items, not about shapechanging. However, some DMs allow stuff to resize quickly enough to remain after shapechange.

Does it meld into my new form?

This is the most approach most consistant with the RAW.

Or does it all come splintering off, broken and now a pile of expensie junk?

No, stuff either gets absorbed or stays in place. It doesn't get broken (unless that is specifically overridden in the lycanthrope template, but I'd be surprised if it was).

If I am a weretiger, and using a ring of invisibility to be invisible, say, do I stay invisible when I change into my hybrid form from my human form?

Is a ring of invisibility a command word item, or continuous item? Former case you stay invisible, latter you don't. EDIT: Unless you rule that the item is not absorbed, in which case the invisibilty persists either way.

glass.

glass · Sep 16, 2005

glass said:
No, stuff either gets absorbed or stays in place. It doesn't get broken (unless that is specifically overridden in the lycanthrope template, but I'd be surprised if it was).

What it actually says is (emphasis mine):

Alternate Form (Su): A lycanthrope can shift into animal form as though using the polymorph spell on itself, though its gear is not affected, it does not regain hit points for changing form, and only the specific animal form indicated for the lycanthrope can be assumed.

I am slightly at a loss as to what 'gear is not affected' could mean in this context. Whether it resizes, is absorbed, or is damaged, it is affected on way or another.

So, unless someone can bring something to the table that I have missed, it's pretty much a DM call either way. Sorry I can't be more dfinitive!

glass.

Iku Rex · Sep 16, 2005

glass said:
No, stuff either gets absorbed or stays in place. It doesn't get broken (unless that is specifically overridden in the lycanthrope template, but I'd be surprised if it was).

SRD said:
Changing to animal or hybrid form ruins the character's armor and clothing (including any items worn) if the new form is larger than the character's natural form; carried items are simply dropped.).Characters can hastily doff clothing while changing, but not armor. Magic armor survives the change if it succeeds on a DC 15 Fortitude save.

Surprise!

The rule is essentially the same as in 3.0, when armor resized to fit the wearer, so the intent seems to be that even resizing magic items are destroyed. (Though you might allow a Fort save.)

I suspect the note about magic armor surviving the change is a 3.0 holdover due to lack of knowledge of the 3.5 rules though. (What happens if the armor "wins"? A bear-sized chest squeezed into a human breastplate? That's gotta hurt...for a brief moment.)

(Another issue: What about same-size forms with widely different physiology? What happens to a human's equipment when he changes into a wolf?)

CGoat · Sep 16, 2005

I believe the weretiger becomes large. When you change to a large hybred/animal your armor and clothing gets trashed. I'm not sure what book its in... But my buddy and i looked it up yesterday. We're playing in an evil game and I'm playing a wereboar... I wanted to know if my armor was still usable in hybred form. The text said as long as you don't change size your ok.

glass · Sep 16, 2005

Iku Rex said:
Surprise!

Ah, it doesn't mention anything about that under the Alternate Form (Su) ability, which is why I didn't spot it. Especially as it contradicts that section: It difficult to see how something can be both 'destroyed' and 'unaffected'!

Also, it appears under 'Lycanthropy as an Affliction', so it apparently doesn't apply to natural lycanthropes.

glass.

Borlon · Sep 16, 2005

glass said:
It difficult to see how something can be both 'destroyed' and 'unaffected'!

Also, it appears under 'Lycanthropy as an Affliction', so it apparently doesn't apply to natural lycanthropes.

I guess it is not affected in the way that polymorph normally affects gear; that is to say, it is not absorbed or resized. But effects caused by a new form would still affect gear. If a werecactus assumes cactus form, for example, its needles punch through the clothing; the clothes don't get any sort of immunity to the punctures. A were-fire elemental would have its clothes burned, and so on.

I am not sure that your reasoning about natural lycanthropes is valid. If the target's gear is not affected as gear is affected by a polymorph spell, then it is going to get dropped or destroyed.

Regarding magic armor, I would allow magic armor to resize, but not reshape; that'll probably mean a penalty to attacks and move related actions of some sort, but the armor would survive the lycanthrope changing to hybrid form. Only if the general body shape is non-humanoid would I say that there is a chance that, instead of reshaping, it would be destroyed (thus the fort save). My reasoning is that you can't put a suit of magic platemail on a pig and expect it to morph into something that fits. So if a character changes into a pig, his magic plate won't morph either. It might fall apart, or it might trap the character in it. That I'd make up as I went along.

Iku Rex · Sep 16, 2005

glass said:
Ah, it doesn't mention anything about that under the Alternate Form (Su) ability, which is why I didn't spot it. Especially as it contradicts that section: It difficult to see how something can be both 'destroyed' and 'unaffected'!

Not at all. The gear is not affected by the alternate form ability. (It's mentioned as an exception to the normal rules for polymorph effects.) So if you change into a bear your armor won't resize or meld because of the ability. Nowhere does it say that trying to force a human-sized armor onto a bear's body will leave the armor "unaffected". (What's the alternative? Insta-death? Imagine your upper body suddenly and violently squeezed down to fit inside a halfling-sized armor...

)

glass said:
Also, it appears under 'Lycanthropy as an Affliction', so it apparently doesn't apply to natural lycanthropes.

At best you could argue that there aren't any specific rules for natural lycanthropes. Since they have the exact same alternate form ability as afflicted lycanthropes I see no reason to treat them differently.

glass · Sep 16, 2005

Iku Rex said:
At best you could argue that there aren't any specific rules for natural lycanthropes.

And, if there aren't any specific rules, then the general rules continue to apply (equipment is retained or melds).

Since they have the exact same alternate form ability as afflicted lycanthropes I see no reason to treat them differently.

Then why is the text under the heading of afflicted lycanthropes? Or more specifically, why is it not mentioned in the Alternate Form ability?

FWIW, I think that the damaging equipment rule was probably intended to apply to both natural and infected lycanthropes, and would probably use that in my campaign as a fine and flavourful houserule, but the by the RAW it quite plainly only applies to infected.

glass.

Iku Rex · Sep 16, 2005

glass said:
And, if there aren't any specific rules, then the general rules continue to apply (equipment is retained or melds).

That's not the general rule for a lycanthrope's alternate form.

SRD said:
A lycanthrope can shift into animal form as though using the polymorph spell on itself, though [what follows are exceptions to the general "as though using the polymorph spell"] its gear is not affected, it does not regain hit points for changing form, and only the specific animal form indicated for the lycanthrope can be assumed.

If a suit of armor does not change shape or meld when the wearer suddenly grows a size category, it will be destroyed. (Or it will kill the wearer.) It's not the alternate form ability that "affects" the armor, it's the result of the use of the alternate form ability.

glass said:
Then why is the text under the heading of afflicted lycanthropes?

Most likely because it never occurred to anyone that a natural lycanthrope would voluntarily ruin his equipment by changing form.

glass said:
Or more specifically, why is it not mentioned in the Alternate Form ability?

In a sense it is. If you want to get technical, then by your reasoning only the magic armor of afflicted lycanthropes have a chance to survive the change. After all, there's no specific rule regarding armor for natural lycanthropes.

Lycanthropes

Joachim Pieper

First Post

glass

(he, him)

glass

(he, him)

Iku Rex

Explorer

CGoat

First Post

glass

(he, him)

Borlon

First Post

Iku Rex

Explorer

glass

(he, him)

Iku Rex

Explorer

Similar Threads