Balance: Races

this is a thread to talk specifically about races and balance issues.

Here is my current position
1. Non-phb Races (aka core races) are fairly easy to anaylze balance for because
*they really only have one or combat effecting powers the powers are
*...limited use
*...substantially identical to magic item powers
*presently they don't have feats
*core races have a wide variety of effective power that can be used in comparison

Threats
I see threats as being more centered around fairness-to-existing-character-issues including
*Certain races (I.e. Changelings) the effects of their power are manifestly unclear and almost impossible to guarantee will be judged consistently.
*New races fulfilling a role better than an existing race (or in extreme cases "dominating" another race - where playing an existing race is always a worse choice than the new race - anything with fire resistance will probably dominate the teifling)
*players are frustrated that they didnt have the same choices as newer players coming in; that their time investment puts them at a disadvantage.

There is also a potential "roleplaying threat" as new characters may
appear who don't fit well in the existing setting. This can basically be resolved by a setting that is properly modular. Is every new character a Druid or a Goliath? An island of them just appeared in the distance through the fog of the shifting seas. .

As I've mentioned elsewhere I think that I haven't seen a race yet that strikes me as excessively powerful (dislike the drow powers a bit but I have drow issues).

One key element to remember in evaluating any power is "how often can a pc use them"?
concerns were mentioned at one point about the minotaur's fercocity...

How many races are you realy looking at allowing for PCs? I would suggest not expanding it too much, especialy initialy.

well per the poll we've got core + mm appendix; my intrepretation of the poll result, which I haven't seen challenged is that there will be somewhat more difficult to play non-core (I.e. Mm appendix races) - some mild judge scrutiny.

(this is all explained on the lew wiki btw which also includes links to some posts etc)

In a number of cases people who voted indicated that they wanted to revisit the issue once the campaign had started.

And there is general strong interest on the part of people to play certain races (like genasi) so I expect to see that revisited at some
point in the future.

Again this isn't a setting that is being constructed by one (or even a handful) of people. Beyond the "power of persuasion" there is no way to guarantee a setting will be simple or complex, etc etc.

And, as I mentioned in the discussion thread its already been decided (for now). This this is not a thread to debate which races should and shouldn't be allowed
its already been discussed. And discussed and voted on. And discussed. And a compromise (which naturally doesn't please either camp completely) has been fashioned.

This is a thread to try to get a closer cleaner look at the races we've agreed in principal to allow and to see what (if any) balance issues exist.

There are some races in the MM that are good at certain things, but given the lack of feats and as many features as PHB races, I don't really think any of them are unbalanced.

I'd like to see some official mechanism that makes the MM options somewhat less common than PHB options, but outside of "first come, first served" I don't have any ideas... Maybe that your first PC has to use PHB options, and future ones can use other options. But I don't want people forced to play a character they don't want to "earn" the option the really are after, plus in that system once they start their second character, the first is likely to be retired anyways.

Yeah, I don't see a way to limit the numbers of non-PHB races either, garyh. I think that if we're going to allow MM races at all, they need to be on an equal basis with PHB races.

Or, if we are sticking to a maximum of 3 PC's per player, you could let any one of the three be a non-PHB race, but not say which one it has to be. So they could have their MM race character first if that's what they want the most, but the other two have to be PHB standard. I think that would be a decent middle ground controlling factor.

Phoenix8008 said:

Or, if we are sticking to a maximum of 3 PC's per player, you could let any one of the three be a non-PHB race, but not say which one it has to be. So they could have their MM race character first if that's what they want the most, but the other two have to be PHB standard. I think that would be a decent middle ground controlling factor.

Click to expand...

Works for me.

When PHB2 and so forth come out and are (probably) allowed, would that take the same 1 of 3 slot as the MM character, or would we say 1 PHB1, 1 MM, 1 PHB2+?

Originally we'd discussed 1 character per person to start. I know halford started talking about three, but I can't figure out where it came from.

Personally I'm loath to have people with multiple characters at this point.

I'll make a poll.

There is now a poll on the number of player characters allowed at launch.