D&D General Drow as in Cow or Drow as in Snow: Where did the Dark Elves Come From?

[PHATsakk43]

It's like the German "ch", or the Scottish "ch" as in "loch".

which honestly sounds pretty distinct from “k”.

I did decide to dig into my Tolkien source theory a bit last night and I’m actually leaning more toward that than I was originally expecting.

The biggest thing was that I found out how much influence Tolkien had on Gygax, which is somewhat odd since most of what I had read suggested that Gygax wasn’t a very big fan of Tolkien. Come to find out, that the one thing that you should not take Gary Gygax seriously about was any opinions he had of himself.

Gygax famously stated he didn’t take much influence from Tolkien and his inspiration was more pulp and HP Lovecraft. This never really made much sense given that all the window dressing of D&D was ripped from Tolkien. Granted, much of his public comments on the subject are after a 1977 C&D issued by the Tolkien Estate over the use of specific terms as well as publishing a third-party wargame entitled "Battle of Five Armies."

He used the same verbiage for dwarves and elves as Tolkien, had several icons of D&D exclusively Tolkien (orcs, & half-orcs and elves), and D&D elves were definitely Tolkien elves and not the “normal” ones of the era which were more akin to fairies or associated with Santa or forest based baking (the Keebler Elves were created in 1968) than the depiction in D&D.

The whole thing got me thinking, so I decided to see what the timing was between the release of The Silmarillion and Gary writing the G-D-Q stuff where drow were introduced. Well, it was rather interesting as the book was published in 1977 and the adventures released shortly after with the Drow portion conceived in the 78-79 time. Well, other than the coincidence, there was nothing actually linking Gary with The Silmarillion and the closest contemporary stuff by Gary stating he didn’t find much influence from Tolkien.

That said, the trail actually points towards Gary playing down his own Tolkien influence likely as part of Gary being Gary. In fact, in addition to the previously mentioned obvious Tolkien derivation, comes to find out Gary was quite invested in what really is Tolkien fan-fiction. It just seems that prior to the 1977 C&D, Mr. Gygax appears to be taking significant inspiration from Tolkien and then being extremely adamant afterwards that it was the opposite.

Some of the earliest published works by Gary are in a Diplomacy zine from 1968 named “Thangorodrim”—itself a rather obscure reference from LotR that would be much more well known after The Silmarillion—where Gary describes the expanded dragons for Middle-Earth using colors to describe such creatures in an article series named “Grate Wourms”. Here is a link to the third in the series where he describes a green dragon breathing chlorine gas. It appears that these articles which describe red, green, blue, and white dragons as well as the old D&D standby of Purple Worms, were the genesis of the chromatic dragons we all know and love today.

Given all this, my guess is the concept of drow and especially Lloth’s association with chaos, evil, & spiders as well as her feminine gendering is directly from Tolkien. The way they manifested in D&D was all Gary. After all, this would have been around the time that Gary was forced to retcon his other appropriated concepts due to the Tolkien Estate C&D, such as ents becoming treants, balrogs becoming balor, & hobbits becoming halflings. Then that was expanded—poorly IMHO—by Bob Salvatore and then with the WotC folks who really leaned into edgy.

As for the pronunciation, I have always said it rhyming with cow. Dragon Magazine stated that was the “correct” way in the early 1990s (or at least Skip Williams said that). The reference Gygax stated he used doesn’t exist, but a reference that is somewhat similar in title lists a “trow” with alternate spelling of “drow” as an underground troll. It also says that this trow rhymes with “row” as in what one does with a boat.

 

[Mannahnin]

The whole thing got me thinking, so I decided to see what the timing was between the release of The Silmarillion and Gary writing the G-D-Q stuff where drow were introduced. Well, it was rather interesting as the book was published in 1977 and the adventures released shortly after with the Drow portion conceived in the 78-79 time. Well, other than the coincidence, there was nothing actually linking Gary with The Silmarillion and the closest contemporary stuff by Gary stating he didn’t find much influence from Tolkien.

---

Given all this, my guess is the concept of drow and especially Lloth’s association with chaos, evil, & spiders as well as her feminine gendering is directly from Tolkien. The way they manifested in D&D was all Gary. After all, this would have been around the time that Gary was forced to retcon his other appropriated concepts due to the Tolkien Estate C&D, such as ents becoming treants, balrogs becoming balor, & hobbits becoming halflings. Then that was expanded—poorly IMHO—by Bob Salvatore and then with the WotC folks who really leaned into edgy.

Chain of borrowing from Tolkien (in broad strokes) goes:

• Leonard Patt's Middle Earth wargame in The Courier becomes known to Gygax.
• Gygax expands on that to incorporate some elements of Elric and Conan and other fantasies he liked, and tweaks it for compatibility with Chainmail, and that becomes the famous Fantasy Supplement at the back of Chainmail.
• Dave Arneson uses the Fantasy Supplement as his initial rules basis for his "medieval Braunstein" which became Blackmoor.
• Blackmoor gets really popular among the Twin Cities gamers, Dave shows it to Gary, and Gary (with some feedback from and collaboration with Dave) turns it into D&D.

Remember that as I covered in a previous comment, Gary also expressed that Tolkien was one among a bunch of influences as early as 1974, well before the Tolkien Enterprises lawsuit. The description of dark elves with black skin is a direct lift from Pratt and de Camp's The Roaring Trumpet. Gary himself wrote in Dragon 31, in 1979 they were inspired by that book.

Given all this, my guess is the concept of drow and especially Lloth’s association with chaos, evil, & spiders as well as her feminine gendering is directly from Tolkien.

Where in Tolkien are you getting the kinslaying Noldor being associated with spiders? Given Gary's repeated and consistently expressed opinion over decades that LotR was too slow-paced for his tastes, the idea that he actually read The Silmarillion seems dubious to me.

As you noted, Galadriel is a Noldor, among many other Noldor in Middle Earth, and they're all on the side of good, living above ground, and have no association with spiders or major physical differences from other elves.

As for the pronunciation, I have always said it rhyming with cow. Dragon Magazine stated that was the “correct” way in the early 1990s (or at least Skip Williams said that). The reference Gygax stated he used doesn’t exist, but a reference that is somewhat similar in title lists a “trow” with alternate spelling of “drow” as an underground troll. It also says that this trow rhymes with “row” as in what one does with a boat.

Issue 142, Feb 1989.

 

[Demetrios1453]

Chain of borrowing from Tolkien (in broad strokes) goes:

• Leonard Patt's Middle Earth wargame in The Courier becomes known to Gygax.
• Gygax expands on that to incorporate some elements of Elric and Conan and other fantasies he liked, and tweaks it for compatibility with Chainmail, and that becomes the famous Fantasy Supplement at the back of Chainmail.
• Dave Arneson uses the Fantasy Supplement as his initial rules basis for his "medieval Braunstein" which became Blackmoor.
• Blackmoor gets really popular among the Twin Cities gamers, Dave shows it to Gary, and Gary (with some feedback from and collaboration with Dave) turns it into D&D.

Remember that as I covered in a previous comment, Gary also expressed that Tolkien was one among a bunch of influences as early as 1974, well before the Tolkien Enterprises lawsuit. The description of dark elves with black skin is a direct lift from Pratt and de Camp's The Roaring Trumpet. Gary himself wrote in Dragon 31, in 1979 they were inspired by that book.


Where in Tolkien are you getting the kinslaying Noldor being associated with spiders? Given Gary's repeated and consistently expressed opinion over decades that LotR was too slow-paced for his tastes, the idea that he actually read The Silmarillion seems dubious to me.

As you noted, Galadriel is a Noldor, among many other Noldor in Middle Earth, and they're all on the side of good, living above ground, and have no association with spiders or major physical differences from other elves.


Issue 142, Feb 1989.

The only association of the Kinslaying with spiders would be Ungoliant, but she (and Morgoth) have long since fled before the First Kinslaying. Granted, she and Morgoth killing the Two Trees is what sets off the whole chain of events that eventually lead to the Kinslayings, but she is by no means a proximate cause!

 

[PHATsakk43]

Chain of borrowing from Tolkien (in broad strokes) goes:

I think you're following Mr. Gygax's preferred rendering of the history, which now includes other, older things that make that rather inconsistent.

Again, we now know that Gygax was writing Tolkien fan-fic for the game Diplomacy zine Thangorodrim which becomes the basis for D&D's chromatic dragons. It was also not completely without input from Tolkien, as the first of the 'grate wourms' described in Thangorodrim was based on Smaug being a red dragon and having fire breath. Gygax continues this series of columns over 5 issues of Thangorodrim and lays out white, black, green, blue, and the aforementioned red dragons with abilities that continue to this very day.

I think it is also somewhat informative to recognize that this was purely "flavor" for Diplomacy, as there aren't differentiation between units. This isn't describing a creature that would be fought on a sand table, but just world building.

I include this, as it feels to me that it calls into question some of Mr. Gygax's later opinions regarding Tolkien. He definitely seemed extremely interested in it at a rather formative part of his time as a gamer.

Where in Tolkien are you getting the kinslaying Noldor being associated with spiders? Given Gary's repeated and consistently expressed opinion over decades that LotR was too slow-paced for his tastes, the idea that he actually read The Silmarillion seems dubious to me.

It is two separate concepts. Elves rebelling against their gods and taking oaths which lead to the killing of fellow elves followed by self-imposed exile is a much closer concept of late-1970s D&D drow than anything that came out of Sprague de Camp or Pratt. The spider stuff is a separate item of similarity between Gygax and Tolkien. While spiders are prominent in both of the earlier works about Middle-Earth, it is only with The Silmarillion that we fully understand where all these evil, chaotic spider creatures come from. I'm not saying that Tolkien associated spiders with the Noldor or elves whatsoever, just that his equivalent of an elder evil came in the form of a chaotic, feminine spider.

I suppose I can expound upon that more. In The Roaring Trumpet I can definitely see the influences that become the Against the Giants series, but the "dark elves" play but a small part and nothing particularly similar to their role in the G-D-Q series. They also are very much closer to description of a dwarf or gnome from D&D, not an elf. Granted, this depiction is because the base of The Roaring Trumpet is the Prose Edda a 13th century mythological Norse work.

Had Gygax written the secret masters pulling the giant's strings to have been a proto-duergar or proto-svirfneblin, I would agree with you, but that wasn't the case. The dökkálfar and svartálfar aren't Tolkienesq elves, but dwarves. Gygax made this change, which follows Tolkien doing much the same. Again, it's impossible that both men would change these creatures in almost the exact same way, but it does feel improbable.

Which brings this back to Tolkien. Tolkien himself pulled much of his ideas from Prose Edda including many of his concepts of elves and dwarves. However, it wasn't until the release of The Silmarillion did anyone have but a brief understanding of First and Second Age events. Including the other things I discussed like a group of elves rebelling against their gods and kin, feminine spider creatures of great power that come from beyond and hold only the desire for chaos and evil, and the Galadriel/Elistraee (this is a Greenwood thing, which I've never bothered to ask and I have less support than for my theories of Gygax) there is more in The Silmarillion that coincides with even the earliest version of drow than anything from The Roaring Trumpet.

Let's take Eöl who was always referred to in The Silmarillion as "the dark elf" who was a dwarf-friend and forger of the black steel galvorn, as hard as mithril but dark black and supple enough to be worn at all times. He also was accused of kinslaying and betrayal and ultimately tossed to his death. His son Maeglin was also a renowned smith who likewise was duplicitous.

Again, all of these fiction writers are inspired by the same 13th century mythology, however two made a massive change by incorporating a large part of the dwarfs described in Prose Edda into elves, referred to these elves as "dark", and had them forgers of black steel as hard as dwarven mithril. I suppose that it could be that Mr. Gygax took many of the same elements as did Tolkien, but I find that it a bit of a stretch.

Issue 142, Feb 1989.

Well, late 1980s. I'll admit that I got the date incorrect. I knew it was early in the 2E era, but couldn't remember the exact date.

 

[dave2008]

I think you're following Mr. Gygax's preferred rendering of the history, which now includes other, older things that make that rather inconsistent.

Again, we now know that Gygax was writing Tolkien fan-fic for the game Diplomacy zine Thangorodrim which becomes the basis for D&D's chromatic dragons. It was also not completely without input from Tolkien, as the first of the 'grate wourms' described in Thangorodrim was based on Smaug being a red dragon and having fire breath. Gygax continues this series of columns over 5 issues of Thangorodrim and lays out white, black, green, blue, and the aforementioned red dragons with abilities that continue to this very day.

I think it is also somewhat informative to recognize that this was purely "flavor" for Diplomacy, as there aren't differentiation between units. This isn't describing a creature that would be fought on a sand table, but just world building.

I include this, as it feels to me that it calls into question some of Mr. Gygax's later opinions regarding Tolkien. He definitely seemed extremely interested in it at a rather formative part of his time as a gamer.

It is two separate concepts. Elves rebelling against their gods and taking oaths which lead to the killing of fellow elves followed by self-imposed exile is a much closer concept of late-1970s D&D drow than anything that came out of Sprague de Camp or Pratt. The spider stuff is a separate item of similarity between Gygax and Tolkien. While spiders are prominent in both of the earlier works about Middle-Earth, it is only with The Silmarillion that we fully understand where all these evil, chaotic spider creatures come from. I'm not saying that Tolkien associated spiders with the Noldor or elves whatsoever, just that his equivalent of an elder evil came in the form of a chaotic, feminine spider.

I suppose I can expound upon that more. In The Roaring Trumpet I can definitely see the influences that become the Against the Giants series, but the "dark elves" play but a small part and nothing particularly similar to their role in the G-D-Q series. They also are very much closer to description of a dwarf or gnome from D&D, not an elf. Granted, this depiction is because the base of The Roaring Trumpet is the Prose Edda a 13th century mythological Norse work.

Had Gygax written the secret masters pulling the giant's strings to have been a proto-duergar or proto-svirfneblin, I would agree with you, but that wasn't the case. The dökkálfar and svartálfar aren't Tolkienesq elves, but dwarves.

Which brings this back to Tolkien. Tolkien himself pulled much of his ideas from Prose Edda including many of his concepts of elves and dwarves. However, it wasn't until the release of The Silmarillion did anyone have but a brief understanding of First and Second Age events. Including the other things I discussed like a group of elves rebelling against their gods and kin, feminine spider creatures of great power that come from beyond and hold only the desire for chaos and evil, and the Galadriel/Elistraee (this is a Greenwood thing, which I've never bothered to ask and I have less support than for my theories of Gygax) there is more in The Silmarillion that coincides with even the earliest version of drow than anything from The Roaring Trumpet.

Let's take Eöl who was always referred to in The Silmarillion as "the dark elf" who was a dwarf-friend and forger of the black steel galvorn, as hard as mithril but dark black and supple enough to be worn at all times. He also was accused of kinslaying and betrayal and ultimately tossed to his death. His son Maeglin was also a renowned smith who likewise was duplicitous.

Again, all of these fiction writers are inspired by the same 13th century mythology, however two made a massive change by incorporating a large part of the dwarfs described in Prose Edda into elves, referred to these elves as "dark", and had them forgers of black steel as hard as dwarven mithril. I suppose that it could be that Mr. Gygax took many of the same elements as did Tolkien, but I find that it a bit of a stretch.


Well, late 1980s. I'll admit that I got the date incorrect. I knew it was early in the 2E era, but couldn't remember the exact date.

Just a reminder, the Silmarillion wasn't published until 1977, D&D was chugging along pretty well at that point. The G-D-Q series (checks wikipedia) were original published in 1978-80. That seems like a pretty narrow timeline for the Silmarillion to have had an impact on those modules. I guess it is possible, but seems unlikely to me

 

[PHATsakk43]

Just a reminder, the Silmarillion wasn't published until 1977, D&D was chugging along pretty well at that point. The G-D-Q series (checks wikipedia) were original published in 1978-80. That seems like a pretty narrow timeline for the Silmarillion to have had an impact on those modules. I guess it is possible, but seems unlikely to me

The G part is not. The D-Q definitely are.

I think the contemporary aspects between the The Silimarillion & the two later series is part of why I think this. Also the deviation of the equivalent creatures in the story that forms the basis for the G series adds to this in my mind.

 

[dave2008]

The G part is not. The D-Q definitely are.

You lost me here and I now question the veracity of all your posts in this thread. There is nothing definite, it is pure speculation. You could be correct or you could be wrong, it is not definite. The closest thing we get to a definitive answer is Gygax telling us what was the inspiration for the Drow. That is from the horses mouth and even that is not 100% definitive (for many reasons that I will not get into), but that is a lot closer than your speculation!

 

[PHATsakk43]

You lost me here and now question the veracity of all your posts in this thread. There is nothing definite, it is pure speculation. You could be correct, or you could be wrong it is not definite. The closest thing we get to a definitive answer is Gygax telling us what was the inspiration for the Drow. That is from the horses mouth and even that is not 100% definitive (for many reasons that I will not get into), but that is a lot closer than your speculation!

The Giants part is lifted very much from another work, The Roaring Trumpet which was mentioned by Mannahnin a few posts back.

Again, I take Gary rarely at his word. The more he insists the less so.

I'm not saying that Gary didn't create drow, he most certainly did. I'm just saying that his influence was Tolkien.

Just a reminder, the Silmarillion wasn't published until 1977, D&D was chugging along pretty well at that point.

Well, there was another work that was apparently floating around the offices of TSR which was the 1971 A Guide to Middle-Earth which was quoted as the source of The Dragon #1's article by Larry Smith (who authored Battle of the Five Armies then being published by TSR) for the "Three Kindreds of the Eldar" for D&D.

As to the amount of knowledge of the history of the Elves of the First Age, a letter written in response to Mr. Smith's article (actually, the letter is about 3x as long as the article) in The Dragon #3 goes into fairly extensive detail regarding these elves and this was in 1976, which implies that there was far more understanding of what would ultimately be released in The Silmarillion in the coming year. As to it's validity, Christopher Tolkien acknowledged Robert Foster's work as good.

Now, I had completely forgotten that 1971 work even existed (I'm only 45 and was born in 1979). I also didn't know how much depth A Guide to Middle-Earth contained, but it apparently had a vast amounts of detail about Noldorian elves who, were often referred to as 'deep elves'. The first use of 'deep elves' to describe what would ultimately become Noldor was actually in The Hobbit in chapter VII 'Spiders and Flies', although this is just an off-hand remark by the narrator about the different kinds of elves, including wood elves, light elves, sea elves and even that the wood elves were among those who never left for Arda (called 'Faerie' in The Hobbit).

 

[Mannahnin]

I think you're following Mr. Gygax's preferred rendering of the history, which now includes other, older things that make that rather inconsistent.

Again, we now know that Gygax was writing Tolkien fan-fic for the game Diplomacy zine Thangorodrim which becomes the basis for D&D's chromatic dragons. It was also not completely without input from Tolkien, as the first of the 'grate wourms' described in Thangorodrim was based on Smaug being a red dragon and having fire breath. Gygax continues this series of columns over 5 issues of Thangorodrim and lays out white, black, green, blue, and the aforementioned red dragons with abilities that continue to this very day.

I think it is also somewhat informative to recognize that this was purely "flavor" for Diplomacy, as there aren't differentiation between units. This isn't describing a creature that would be fought on a sand table, but just world building.

I include this, as it feels to me that it calls into question some of Mr. Gygax's later opinions regarding Tolkien. He definitely seemed extremely interested in it at a rather formative part of his time as a gamer.

Nah. I've read all that, and I already caveated my earlier posts that I think Gary's accounts are a bit unreliable and that even the 1974 piece isn't a rock-solid lock for his account, but I don't read the pre-D&D evidence quite the same way you do.

PBM Diplomacy was one of his gaming communities, and otherworld/fictional variants of Diplomacy were a popular part of that community, with Tolkien-based ones being among the most prominent, as I understand it, due to the popularity of the books. Gary playing in Middle Earth-themed Diplomacy variants doesn't necessarily indicate serious Tolkien fandom. The red dragon being based on Smaug is consistent with his expressed enjoyment of The Hobbit, and I would suggest that his invention of several more colors indicates a desire to create and riff on new ideas rather than a particular interest in fidelity to Tolkien or incorporating more of Tolkien's ideas into gaming. Extrapolating new sub-species and applying pseudoscientific classifications to them, complete with Linnaean-style nomenclature, is very consistent with Anderson or Leiber-style application of scientific reasoning to mythical subjects. Very different from Tolkien's aesthetic or approach.

It is two separate concepts. Elves rebelling against their gods and taking oaths which lead to the killing of fellow elves followed by self-imposed exile is a much closer concept of late-1970s D&D drow than anything that came out of Sprague de Camp or Pratt. The spider stuff is a separate item of similarity between Gygax and Tolkien. While spiders are prominent in both of the earlier works about Middle-Earth, it is only with The Silmarillion that we fully understand where all these evil, chaotic spider creatures come from. I'm not saying that Tolkien associated spiders with the Noldor or elves whatsoever, just that his equivalent of an elder evil came in the form of a chaotic, feminine spider.

I'm not seeing any substantial similarity between the Noldor and the drow. Physically or culturally. Kinslaying and a fall from power are very consistent with other pre-Tolkien sources Tolkien and Gary both drew from, like Irish and Welsh myth. If the Noldor had black skin and/or a spider goddess, that'd be much more convincing.

I suppose I can expound upon that more. In The Roaring Trumpet I can definitely see the influences that become the Against the Giants series, but the "dark elves" play but a small part and nothing particularly similar to their role in the G-D-Q series. They also are very much closer to description of a dwarf or gnome from D&D, not an elf. Granted, this depiction is because the base of The Roaring Trumpet is the Prose Edda a 13th century mythological Norse work.

Had Gygax written the secret masters pulling the giant's strings to have been a proto-duergar or proto-svirfneblin, I would agree with you, but that wasn't the case. The dökkálfar and svartálfar aren't Tolkienesq elves, but dwarves. Gygax made this change, which follows Tolkien doing much the same. Again, it's impossible that both men would change these creatures in almost the exact same way, but it does feel improbable.

Which brings this back to Tolkien. Tolkien himself pulled much of his ideas from Prose Edda including many of his concepts of elves and dwarves. However, it wasn't until the release of The Silmarillion did anyone have but a brief understanding of First and Second Age events. Including the other things I discussed like a group of elves rebelling against their gods and kin, feminine spider creatures of great power that come from beyond and hold only the desire for chaos and evil, and the Galadriel/Elistraee (this is a Greenwood thing, which I've never bothered to ask and I have less support than for my theories of Gygax) there is more in The Silmarillion that coincides with even the earliest version of drow than anything from The Roaring Trumpet.

Let's take Eöl who was always referred to in The Silmarillion as "the dark elf" who was a dwarf-friend and forger of the black steel galvorn, as hard as mithril but dark black and supple enough to be worn at all times. He also was accused of kinslaying and betrayal and ultimately tossed to his death. His son Maeglin was also a renowned smith who likewise was duplicitous.

Again, all of these fiction writers are inspired by the same 13th century mythology, however two made a massive change by incorporating a large part of the dwarfs described in Prose Edda into elves, referred to these elves as "dark", and had them forgers of black steel as hard as dwarven mithril. I suppose that it could be that Mr. Gygax took many of the same elements as did Tolkien, but I find that it a bit of a stretch.

So the prose edda and poetic edda do distinguish between elves and dwarves, and they also and separately distinguish between lossalfar and dokkalfar. Alfar translates to Elf. Calling them elves isn't Gygax's idea. That's standard in Norse myth and cosmology. Poul Anderson differentiates between elves and dwarves in his books, too, and he was drawing from Norse mythology and more directly interpreting it than Tolkien, who adapted/changed it more in his own work.

The eddas are very vague about the appearance of the alfar. The main distinction is that they're described as being "black as pitch", and that their deeds are also dark and terrible. Lossalfar means white elves, but the etymology indicates that this may mean "beautiful elves" rather than "light elves". And the reverse may also be true for the dokkalfar / svartalfar. If we just look at the Eddas, Gary seems to dip much more directly from that well than Tolkien did. Obviously Gary took the description literally (as did de Camp and Pratt, though thank you for pointing out that The Roaring Trumpet does call them dwarves).

Tolkien didn't only base his elves on the Norse alfar, but also (and arguably moreso) on the Irish Tuatha de Danaan and the Welsh Tylwyth teg. Both of which clearly contribute to the Tolkien elf concept and appearance. Often taller and always more beautiful than humans, immortal, otherworldly and magical. But able to intermarry and have relationships. And generally beneficent. Tolkien has no equivalent to the dokkalfar in his world. No race of black elves who are broadly evil and destructive.

 

[Alzrius]

Lossalfar means white elves, but the etymology indicates that this may mean "beautiful elves" rather than "light elves". And the reverse may also be true for the dokkalfar / svartalfar.

It doesn't seem like it; according to the section you linked to:

Jakob Grimm thought whiteness implied positive moral connotations, and, noting Snorri Sturluson's ljósálfar, suggested that elves were divinities of light. This is not necessarily the case, however. For example, because the cognates suggest matt white rather than shining white, and because in medieval Scandinavian texts whiteness is associated with beauty, Alaric Hall has suggested that elves may have been called 'the white people' because whiteness was associated with (specifically feminine) beauty.

Basically, one of the Brothers Grimm put forward the "calling them 'white' actually means calling them 'beautiful'" theory, and one or two others have offered related takes, but that idea doesn't seem to fly based on the historical etymology.