Why aren't RPGs poplular

It's something that I think bothers a lot of us. Why aren't RPGs as popular as video games, board games - even CCG's? Back in the early 80's, during the 1E heyday, I could walk into a Toys-R-Us and buy D&D books. Nowadays, I can walk into the store and buy video games, videos, board games and even CCG's but the only RPG item I've even seen is the D&D starter set - even though Hasbro now makes D&D. After 30 years in existence, they still seem to be a fringe hobby instead of a mainstream hobby. Even in bookstores, I see entire aisles of comics and magna, and only about an arm's width section of RPGs.

What went wrong? Is there anything that can be done to bring RPGs into the mainstream or are they destined to slowly moulder away into obscurity - a fad that dies out when the original generation of RPGers has gone?

And I'm not just talking about D&D - I'm talking about all RPG games, in general. Why have they become second fiddle to other pursuits, such as video game RPGs and MMOs, games like Descent & Warhammer Quest/WF3 and even DDM (before it was "cancelled")? Heck, I'd almost believe even fantasy & sci fi novels are more popular than RPGs. We have RPGs inspired by movies, but only one of the reverse, and it was recieved very poorly.

RPGs take effort.

I think that's the basic problem and a lot of that effort is spent by a DM/GM "alone in his mother's basement". That's not socially acceptable.

Its not just the effort the DM has to put in.

Consider the time it takes to design a PC- especially if you're an "Amateur Thespian" or a "Power Gamer"- for a typical RPG as compared to the time it takes to do one in a CRPG.

Designing a deck for a CCG might take a comparable amount of time to designing a PC, but you can change it's design seconds after you've seen it in play. A single deck design might change in an ever evolving form over several editions of a game. That evolution can branch in many directions.

In contrast, a typical PC is designed once and only evolves in a linear fashion.

So, in a sense, its a commitment thing.

It's an immediate gratification world (at least in the states - predominantly).

People want the payoff with minimum work and set-up. 30 minute or 1 hour shows (actually 20 minutes and 45 minutes respectively) rule. 90 minute movies rule. Anything longer than that and you ususally lose your audience (with occasional exceptions of course).

RPG's require work. More setup on the part of the GM, but preperation work for all involved. And it takes work during gameplay - a collaborative effort - for no real winner, just continued survival and a group sense of accomplishment. In our cookie cutter, accomplishment on demand world, people want to be entertained. They don't want to have to entertain themselves.

The sad thing is, IMO, the sense of accomplishment in an RPG, through a group effort, is so much more satisfying. But that's probably one of the reasons we here at ENWorld play RPG's while the majority of people don't.

Stormonu said:

After 30 years in existence, they still seem to be a fringe hobby instead of a mainstream hobby.

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Oh well.

What went wrong? Is there anything that can be done to bring RPGs into the mainstream or are they destined to slowly moulder away into obscurity - a fad that dies out when the original generation of RPGers has gone?

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They're not marketed as cool, which doesn't help. Put another way, those things that *are* relentlessly advertised and kewlified at people, tend to sell more. A LOT more. . . But then, it's also far too much like work, as others have said. When picking a hobby or two, how likely is it for someone to choose those that have that particular quality. Yeah. It's destined to be niche, IMO, but also to stick around for the foreseeable future. So it's hardly all doom and gloom.

Heck, I'd almost believe even fantasy & sci fi novels are more popular than RPGs. We have RPGs inspired by movies, but only one of the reverse, and it was recieved very poorly.

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The first bit there. . . reads like comedy. 'Almost'?! 'Even'?! Uh, well let's just say, yes to that. As for movies, no, more than one. OK, not many more than one, it's true. Still. And again, oh well.

There have been several notable CRPGs based on TTRPGs, however. Some have sold rather well, if I'm not mistaken. So that's something, right?

If we're talking RP games in general, we're talking D&D (whatever goes by that brand name lately)!

I think a big part of the "bubble" back in the 1980s was people who found in D&D the next best thing to what they really wanted -- what computer games especially deliver today.

Then there was the general games market, in which the latest "hot thing" gets a season of bumper sales. Mille Bornes, Twixt, Diplomacy, Acquire, Pente, Othello, Civilization, Axis & Allies, Trivial Pursuit, Taboo, Settlers of Catan ... all of those may still be around -- each remained in print for at least a decade -- but I'm sure none of them is the "It" game everyone is talking about in salons or on playgrounds. I was surprised to find that people bought Avalon Hill's 1776 in that American Bicentennial year who never played it -- or, for that matter, any "hex-and-counter war game". It just gathered dust in closets.

D&D actually did remarkably well, I think, in keeping up sales as much as it did from year to year.

A lot of little kids like to play "let's pretend" by running around with toy swords or whatnot. A fair number of older kids are into online, text-based games I gather are sort of like the old MUDs (Multi-User Dungeons, precursors to the graphic MMORPG) and more like free-form collaborative storytelling.

The mix of "let's pretend" and wargame-style rules just does not seem to be most people's cup of tea. The leaps and bounds in complexity that keep the hardcore happy probably don't help, but whatever market there is beyond that probably is not lucrative enough, at least for WotC. "Lite RPGs" are not in the same league as CCGs!

Commercially, there's a built-in problem: People with the smarts and imagination, the time and energy, to play the game much in the first place have what it takes to keep playing indefinitely without buying anything beyond a basic set of rules (in the event they don't just make up their own rules, as, e.g., Ken St Andre did).

One might over-rate that, as TSR did at first in leaving the business of modules entirely to Judges Guild. On the other hand, it's not as profitable as selling rule books.

Who wants to buy a mass of rule books in the first place, much less keep on buying whole sets again through "edition" cycles? Not Connie Casual, who is likely to flee in horror with one look at that. So who needs her anyway? To please her would be to disappoint the serious "gamers" who really pay the bills.

Well, it doesn't bother me particularly. As long as I know a few other folks who like to play, I'm good.

But I'd say the reason is the level of investment required, coupled with the bad image it acquired in the 80s, along with a lack of flashy, expensive TV ad campaigns (which the size of the industry simply doesn't support).

My vote would go to RPG players. They're the biggest reason why the industry and hobby hasn't flourished.

Personally, I think it historically has to do with the DM/GM.

D&D in particular never really made DMing easy and never really explained it well IMO. Throw in the HOURS that you need JUST before the game and the HOURS for the actual game itself?

You can see why RPGs never took off

coupled with the bad image it acquired in the 80s

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I don't know how that went down in the UK, but here in the USA that seems to have been more of a boost to sales. Seemed to work for heavy metal rock, too, at least over here ... if that's the kind of "bad" you mean. ( "Could it be, oh ... I don't know ... SATAN?")